[Poll] Alternative polearm swing (right->left)

[Gravoth_iii]

I never saw instant hitting as a big problem, its one of the few things increasing the speed of duels. Otherwise little risks will be made because with slow swings and no instant hitting you wont be able to spam as much, and so it will be a block hit block fight which can take forever.

I can say though, that 1h does not need nerfs. Its been buffed over a long time, always being just slightly less viable as far as melee vs melee goes, but now it is basically on par. I could see a 1 or 2 damage overall increase on all 1h's, but thats just me personally. When i fight shielders i take lots of risks because the reward greatly outweighs the risk. Against heavy armors, they tickle.

[Senni__Ti]

I never saw instant hitting as a big problem, its one of the few things increasing the speed of duels. Otherwise little risks will be made because with slow swings and no instant hitting you wont be able to spam as much, and so it will be a block hit block fight which can take forever.

I never said slow swings

My goal is to speed up combat, without having things being unblockable.
I.e. you will still be able to use footwork to hit quickly, but there is atleast a visible sign of your attack, giving the opponent a chance to block.

Skill>random

There are plenty of current techniques to increase the speed of duels, which few people use.
Using footwork to glance swings, chambering and fast feinting.

Not many of the duels I enter last that long (one way or the other), without using insta hits.

EDIT:
You can test out the animation and small tweaked 1h & 2h thrust in the OP.

[Gravoth_iii]

I never said slow swings

My goal is to speed up combat, without having things being unblockable.
I.e. you will still be able to use footwork to hit quickly, but there is atleast a visible sign of your attack, giving the opponent a chance to block.

Skill>random

There are plenty of current techniques to increase the speed of duels, which few people use.
Using footwork to glance swings, chambering and fast feinting.

Not many of the duels I enter last that long (one way or the other), without using insta hits.

EDIT:
You can test out the animation and small tweaked 1h & 2h thrust in the OP.

Its not really random though, and can be prevented with footwork most of the time. I've only once or twice in my entire crpg career been hit by something so quickly that i couldnt see the animation.. And when i get into a duelling feel, they can last pretty long, even with the possible hiltslashes.

[Jona]

Not sure what the issue is with polearm rightswings when compared to the strong swings from other weapon types. Each class has the ability to insta-swing/hilstslash. With poles it is easiest with the rightswings, with 2handers it is easiest with the left swing (I think, it's been a while since I played 2hander), and with 1handers it is obviously easiest with the leftswing. The only difference here is that the polearm rightswing is also the longest ranged attack direction for a polearmer, while with a 1hander and 2hander the rightswings are longer than their easy-to-hiltslash-attack, the leftswing. However, I don't particularly see the issue with having one animation that is the longest and easiest to hiltslash with because you can only do one or the other. In order to hilstslash you need to be facehugging, therefore it doesn't matter what range that animation has. Sure, it would be great if the polearm leftswing were perhaps tweaked to make it more viable, whether being long-ranged or easier to hiltslash with to entice us to use it over the other swings, but right now the polearm rightswing makes the class balanced with the other two melee weapons. However I will agree that since polearms really only have one good attack direction, spicing things up by offering more alternatives would be much appreciated to keep combat from getting stale.

The issues with the other swings (imo) are that the overhead has shitty hit detection, the leftswing is the opposite of snappy and also short-ranged, and the stab hitbox, ever since all stabs were tweaked, simply hasn't lined up with the animation all that well. To make matters worse, a lot of polearms actually have really bad stabs. Only the spears/poleaxes (or any 2directional pole, really) have a strong enough to stab to be somewhat reliable. Even the bec can have a really questionable stab, not to mention all the axes, maces, bardiches, etc. that have very weak cut/blunt/pierce stabs that are hard to land on anyone with decent armor. Compare the polearm stab to the 1hand stab... which glances more when using a weak stabbing weapon, like a mace? Those 1hand maces almost never glance compared to their larger polearm counterparts despite the fact that their stab damage is very similar. Now I'm not saying that literally everything about polearms except the rightswing sucks... but pretty close to it. The other attacks are very situational.

[Senni__Ti]

Not sure why the hitboxes are off, I'm looking into if weapon rotation is the cause (weapon rotating without the hand).

Polearm stab could probably do with a tweak, but it's not on my immediate todo list.

[Jona]

Not sure why the hitboxes are off, I'm looking into if weapon rotation is the cause (weapon rotating without the hand).

Assuming you're talking about the overhead swing, I do not really remember much issue with it prior to the polearm overhead tweaking. Then again, it's been a while since then, so my memory might just be fuzzy. Currently, you have to aim for your opponent's right shoulder in order to hit their head (which means you hit to the right of where you are aiming). With longer polearms this gets harder and harder since they have a slower turnrate in addition to being longer and simply harder to judge where exactly they will land, since the overhead is swung diagonally (which might be the cause of half of these issues).

Polearm stab could probably do with a tweak, but it's not on my immediate todo list.

Understandable that the stab isn't really up high on the to do list. The main issue with balancing the polearm stab is that currently the 2d stabby poles have a really strong stab (as they arguably should) yet shorter 4d poles have a terrible stab. Since they both use the same animation, making shorter 4d poles stronger only makes 2d poles OP. It's a tough call to make, where to draw the line.

The only issue with modifying the polearm rightswing is that it is literally a polearm user's only strong option.When you modified the 2handed stab, they still had 3 other swings to rely on (just look at how strong 3d 2handers have always been). Modifying/potentially nerfing the polearm rightswing leaves the class with nothing else, unless you can modify all the other swings to compensate at the same time (since patches are few and far between nowadays). If you really want to tweak one animation, you kinda have to make them all the same priority, and change them all at once, or else you risk losing the entirety of the polearm playerbase until a new patch comes, which we all know can be some time.

[Pawiu]

have you ever even played as polearm?
i play as polearm since over 3 years
if you're about to fuck up right swing  same as someone did with overhead you better have 3 fkin looms prepared to give away \and  left swing from polearm is totaly useless cos its slow and fking way too short and its hard to hit head with it
if u want to change something better change that that all polearms except fking op gla and other long axes  are held in middle of their shafts  which is acctualy pathetic and totaly fuckedup

[Gravoth_iii]

Nerf polearm and 1h = might aswell respecc krems? Attribute build never sounded so tempting, no skillpoints, only attributes..

[Senni__Ti]

have you ever even played as polearm?
i play as polearm since over 3 years
if you're about to fuck up right swing  same as someone did with overhead you better have 3 fkin looms prepared to give away \and  left swing from polearm is totaly useless cos its slow and fking way too short and its hard to hit head with it
if u want to change something better change that that all polearms except fking op gla and other long axes  are held in middle of their shafts  which is acctualy pathetic and totaly fuckedup

I have played polearm.

[Leshma]

Nerf polearm and 1h = might aswell respecc krems? Attribute build never sounded so tempting, no skillpoints, only attributes..

Why would they nerf 1H? Polearms are bit strong because they are nearly on par with 2H but are more versatile (that was the reason to keep poles bit weaker than 2H).

What I would like to see changed is weapon length to rear horses. Someone completely fucked up cav by lowering that length to freaking bastard sword polearm mode...

[Senni__Ti]

Why would they nerf 1H? Polearms are bit strong because they are nearly on par with 2H but are more versatile (that was the reason to keep poles bit weaker than 2H).

What I would like to see changed is weapon length to rear horses. Someone completely fucked up cav by lowering that length to freaking bastard sword polearm mode...

I never liked the rearing change.

Not going to nerf 1h, just tweaking the stab end a tad (well suggesting it anyway).
It's like the old 2h stab when it you could drag full extension into someone for high damage.

[Gravoth_iii]

I never liked the rearing change.

Not going to nerf 1h, just tweaking the stab end a tad (well suggesting it anyway).
It's like the old 2h stab when it you could drag full extension into someone for high damage.

Sounds good on paper but still the most stabs i see from 1h is from archers because they need the pierce. Its a strong thrust and 1h needs strong animations, but its still not used too much because people favour the swings with scimitars etc.

[Rebelyell]

I never liked the rearing change.

Not going to nerf 1h, just tweaking the stab end a tad (well suggesting it anyway).
It's like the old 2h stab when it you could drag full extension into someone for high damage.

you can do the same with new one.... even better to be honest, range is just shorter

[Gurnisson]

Someone completely fucked up cav by lowering that length to freaking bastard sword polearm mode...

Who gets reared by that though? Someone playing with their eyes closed?

I guess I'm one of few who used left -> right quite a bit on polearms. Use right -> to left more often though, but still use all directions quite a lot.

[Mr.K.]

I guess I'm one of few who used left -> right quite a bit on polearms. Use right -> to left more often though, but still use all directions quite a lot.

I don't understand the complaints of it being shit either, I use it almost as often as the other swing and I've seen GTX now do the same when he switched to polearm. It's not that slow either when you turn it to the right a lot. Less abusable than the right swing for sure, but still not bad at all.