Ranged issue (nerf throwing in disguise)

[Leshma]

[Gravoth_iii]

Wait, which one was shit in 2010? Triple oneshot-kill sniper crossbows, oneshot jarids or machinegun plate archers?

Anyways i think ranged as it is now is pretty good, throwing is about as strong as i would prefer it to be. Allthough annoying, i dont think its overpowered.

[HappyPhantom]

Right now we have all three ranged classes being very strong. That was never the case.

Archery damage is actually the lowest it's ever been I think. When B mode was enabled the max damage I could get with a 7PD archer w bodkins was 30. Most times it was 10-20. Pathetic.

Throwing on the other hand, that damage seems way OP, but I never play the class, so no damage data to back it up.

[Mr.K.]

Archery damage is actually the lowest it's ever been I think. When B mode was enabled the max damage I could get with a 7PD archer w bodkins was 30. Most times it was 10-20. Pathetic.

Try with 9 or 10 PD and it deals insane damage. 30 is pretty much half HP of most melee builds - how much damn damage do you think archers are supposed to make?

Not sure about throwing atm. Daggers seem to do a lot of damage even against plate and those throwing lances seem deadly, but whenever I tried my pure jarid thrower build I did so badly with it I just gave up and respecced. The aiming has always been a bit strange so maybe I was just out of practice. Throwers can still kite unlike other ranged classes (well xbow can, but they won't be able to shoot) and also it's the easiest to hybrid. To balance that it should be weaker than the other two imo.

For too long the idea behind the balancing has been too much trying to make everything strong in most situations and the rock-paper-scissors balancing that required more teamwork was forgotten. Throwers for me should be an anti cavalry class like it once was. Also horse throwers should be more viable anti cavalry unit than they are now.

[Molly]

Throwing easy to hybrid? what the...

Yea, let's overlook that crossbow doesn't need to spend skillpoints on anything to become a sniper. Contrary to throwers who need the same skillpoints like archers. Granted, throwers get to invest more points into melee wpf cuz you don't need as much in throwing as in archery but hey... we have like half the ammunition (and less than that).

But this would mean... wait... yea, it does... I do not agree with Leshma! 

Shocking, I know...

[Mr.K.]

Throwing easy to hybrid? what the...

Yea, let's overlook that crossbow doesn't need to spend skillpoints on anything to become a sniper. Contrary to throwers who need the same skillpoints like archers. Granted, throwers get to invest more points into melee wpf cuz you don't need as much in throwing as in archery but hey... we have like half the ammunition (and less than that).

Crossbow highly limits the playstyle of the build if you actually want to shoot and fight and not just one of them. Throwers can switch from ranged to melee in less than a second and while it is true that they need 6-7 extra points in PT, the amount of wpf they have for melee is more than enough to be almost as effective in melee as a pure build. Also weight is much less of an issue for throwers than it is to other ranged classes.

[Molly]

umm... wut? 
With the reworked xbow slots right now, you can have a normal xbow and any 2 slot weapon you like.
You're even more effective with a xbow in melee since you can have more IF, wear heavier armor.
Switching times between melee and ranged is the same for both.
Weight is no issue since dropping stuff is instantly.

Summary: xbow has way more advantages than thrower.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Nope.

Those crossbows will do similar damage to jarid level throwing but without the movement. Swap between throwing and melee and if the enemy backs away you can swap back and throw, can't do that with crossbows since you have to reload. Also need to consider that throwing has ammo everywhere that can be immediately utilized due to the popularity of throwers. It also has less risk up close because you can just throw again if you miss, you miss a shotgun with a crossbow you have to wait for a while, plus there's a good chance the bolt you fired is gone whereas the thrower will just pick up his jarid or whatever cos it won't go as far.

In addition dropping a crossbow isn't as effective as the lower throw weight since you can't always get back to use it later so weight plays a bigger impact that you're inferring here.

[Leshma]

Still supporting throwing nerf, playing pure thrower atm. It is all about trolling people, forcing them to follow you while tossing stuff at them. When you run out of ammo, run around like a chicken in search for more. It is enjoyable in same sadistic way like kiting archery is, but it feels wrong imho. Dedicated class for trolls, nothing more.

[Gravoth_iii]

Still supporting throwing nerf, playing pure thrower atm. It is all about trolling people, forcing them to follow you while tossing stuff at them. When you run out of ammo, run around like a chicken in search for more. It is enjoyable in same sadistic way like kiting archery is, but it feels wrong imho. Dedicated class for trolls, nothing more.

Nerfing something on the basis of it being annoying is silly. Its not even close to overpowered anyways. Best way to deal with throwers is to either ignore them (they dont do shit anyways, chances are they will teamhit when trying to stop you from switching to a new target) or if you are fast enought yolo charge straight forward risking to take a hit to get close enough. I havent really been bothered by a thrower in a while, except when they get a lucky headshot with a lance. Ow

[Leshma]

As far performance goes, that takes experience and some cheating. Just like with every ranged class, you can cheat by switching to glowing textures etc. Probably makes throwing much easier, cause I'm struggling to see trajectory of projectiles and where they have fell for easier pick up. Think that many dedicated throwers use these simple texture cheats.

[NJ_Legion_Icedtea]

I agree that full thrower builds are troll builds well in all honesty it's kiting that's the real troll, but to nerf throwing because of the way some people play the class does not make sense. If someone finds kiting an easy way to kill they will continue to do so until you nerf it down to dealing 0 damage.

don't nerf the class just encourage different gameplay

[Kalp]

Problem is when half of server is some kind of ranged, they even make machine gun nests, then i'm scared   

[Dansk viking]

I've been trying a build that includes throwing (not very optimal, Norman-look-alike), and I'm sorely disappointed. Firstly I found out that you require HA to use throwing weapons on horseback, okay, that 3 HA made the hybrid build less viable - but it should be worth it!

Think, throwing a man-lenght spear from horseback at full speed should kill anything it hits! But it hardly does any damage ~~

Not even horses go down without using your three throwing lances (yes, three because of the hybrid) - and sometimes not even that is enough... Horses! Horses that die from the slightest contact with arrows...


Now, I'd suggest lowering the amount of throwing lances (in your magical, invisible bag) to one. Keep it 2 slot, by all means, after all, it is almost as long as a 2 slot spear. Though one could argue that 1 slot would be better, also enabling some hoplites etc. to use them. But for God's sake, make it do some proper damage! It should have the same punch as a couched great lance when thrown at full speed from a horse.

[dontgothere]

LET MY THROWERS GO   

this thread is mandness sheer mandness