Author Topic: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0  (Read 9292 times)

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Offline lombardsoup

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Offline BASNAK

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Offline Xant

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2015, 05:52:18 pm »
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It's a good thing Obama didn't join a retarded, pointless anti-terror march. Or if anything, that march is playing into the hands of the fundamentalists, showing that they have the power to mobilize millions of people and world leaders with simple actions.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2015, 06:10:21 pm »
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It's a good thing Obama didn't join a retarded, pointless anti-terror march. Or if anything, that march is playing into the hands of the fundamentalists, showing that they have the power to mobilize millions of people and world leaders with simple actions.

He can launch handeggs at them from F22's

Whether the march is useless or not (and I'm with you that it won't stop Muslim terror), his absence still shows a lack of class.

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2015, 08:43:07 pm »
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(click to show/hide)
It wasn't just liberals at all, many non-partisans and many former state security/intelligence agency guys with no-nonsense, old school conservative track records, libertarians etc. When the principle of seperation of powers and civil rights are concerned the red vs blue football match politics are in general suspended. Sad to see though, many Republicans and Conservatives giving up constitution-given fundamental civil rights on the premise of some terror witch hunt experts (including top CIA analysts) and history have well-demonstrated isn't really effective at all but is in fact the main reason why terror is even effective; it enables politicians to enact all kinds of extrajudicial laws that in reality mainly suppresses the people it's ostensibly protecting.

Hebeas corpus is an ancient custom to protect citizens against government abuse (which happens all the time btw. just look at the ridiculous official record). Even the authoritarian Romans had it (some great examples in the New Testament at the trials of Paulus/Saulus where even a poor Christian Jew troublemaker on the fringes of the Empire could have this right respected by Roman soldiers of the local garrison with almost state-religious zeal).
It is a bearing, fundamental right in Western democracies, the absence of which we have often scorned as a basic principle for dictatorships and fascim - an often lauded ruling principle in free societies Western peoples have traditionally fought for at least since the Middle Ages (Magna Carta and the English Common Law which most our judicial systems are based on). It's an integral part of civil rights, Western values that has made our societies some of the most progressive, advanced and free in the history of the world.

It's not only used for terror prevention, in fact there's been next to no results from the increased surveillance, I'd recommend you go look it up, only confirmed case last I looked was some guy who had mailed a few thousand dollars back to some organization in Africa on someone's terrorlist. Remaining cases are from good old fashioned police work. Mostly it's used by other agencies, like the FBI or the DEA, so personal information trickles down the system outside the law and the proper course through the courts and agencies can prosecute and imprison even kill people without fair trial or trial at all. It's used a whole lot in the 'war on drugs', but is also a whole lot about controlling domestic dissent ie. the many political cases against whistleblowers, people filming animal abuse in meat factories, Occupy Wallstreet, 'eco terrorists', activists in general, internet piracy, political blackmailling and of course economic spying for sectors of industry. Intentions notwithstanding, in practical use it has very little to do with our security, I'm afraid.

And no, I'm not doing anything wrong either that I'm afraid the government might see, but I would sure as hell not like my personal emails or pictures or whatever by looked at by some random stranger, private photos of my girlfriend or private letters to an old friend or whatnot. I think the classic analogy with having government surveillance in your bathroom is pretty fitting; no, you don't have anything to hide while in your bathroom but you'd still prefer your privacy, right?

Another point is the lack of transparency and supervision (seperation of powers, remember Montesquieu?) within the official organs (aka FISA courts), and when government officials again and again are lying to the public on these matters as proven by the leak. And no, our personal data isn't just for high ranking, high sec officials to use when low-ranking guys like Snowden had full access.

If you by some chance and against a terrible track record blindly believe your government officials to not abuse the system imagine such a powerful surveillance state apparatus fall into the hands of a (Western-style) tyrant.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:59:01 pm by Angantyr »

Offline The_Bloody_Nine

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2015, 08:59:51 pm »
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haha, I think it's great this Bathily guy was not present when calibouly started shooting because he was attending to his midday prayers.  :D

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2015, 09:01:04 pm »
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haha, I think it's great this Bathily guy was not present when calibouly started shooting because he was attending to his midday prayers.  :D

Calibouly can pray in the dirt now, better for all concerned

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2015, 09:21:40 pm »
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What info has he given? I dont think he gave much anything to the russians, or gave a little bit that barely even scratches the surface. Correct me if im wrong thou. I mean, where else could he have gone, but Russia? The only country on planet earth that flips US off nonstop and isnt a complete craphole(althou still a craphole) is Russia. So obviously if you pissed off the US you would go there. I think even China would have extradited him.
Yes, under the Espionage Act Snowden wouldn't get anything that amounts to a fair trial in the US but would face torture for the rest of his life in solitary confinement. Arguing he should come home and 'face the consequences' is just ludicrous.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act

Offline Tibe

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2015, 09:23:10 pm »
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He can launch handeggs at them from F22's

Whether the march is useless or not (and I'm with you that it won't stop Muslim terror), his absence still shows a lack of class.
I think it shows class. Actually partaking in that march is what shows lack of it imo. Like most people I think its rather silly and tacky. I think actually this, Brad Thor is a fucking asshole and anyone who retweeted or favorited that bullshit. Those people have 0 class. Oh qq, the leader of the free world couldnt be arsed to fly all across the other side of the planet to walk in the street, to show what message exactly? That we are not afraid? We are what.....together? I dont get wtf was the message here, cause it sure as hell wasnt for the victims. There's no reason for the media be this shitty. I think the peoples choice to be a dick about it is far more disrespectful.

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2015, 09:33:41 pm »
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I think it shows class. Actually partaking in that march is what shows lack of it imo. Like most people I think its rather silly and tacky. I think actually this, Brad Thor is a fucking asshole and anyone who retweeted or favorited that bullshit. Those people have 0 class. Oh qq, the leader of the free world couldnt be arsed to fly all across the other side of the planet to walk in the street, to show what message exactly? That we are not afraid? We are what.....together? I dont get wtf was the message here, cause it sure as hell wasnt for the victims. There's no reason for the media be this shitty. I think the peoples choice to be a dick about it is far more disrespectful.

I originally voted for the guy in the White House and what is he doing?  Making an ass of himself and his office by portraying a lazy, uncaring American stereotype only interested in the playoffs.

Offline Christo

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #100 on: January 12, 2015, 09:41:16 pm »
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Well, Orbán was at that stupid march, and also some very.. ahem *controversial* people attended.

Totally lost any credibility for me.

He also gave a message to us after it about the exact opposite of this march, about how he will battle immigration and defend his people, total nonsense considering not even immigrants want to come to Hungary, but only pass through.

Well, this is how he wants to ride the populism waves once again, lots of xenophobic people here, despite the fact that we don't even have as many foreigners or muslims as others in the west.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 09:45:57 pm by Christo »
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #101 on: January 12, 2015, 09:44:47 pm »
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Well, Orbán was at that stupid march, and also some very.. ahem *controversial* people attended.

Totally lost any credibility for me.

Freaking Mr Hamas himself Erdogan and Netanyahu went, but no sign of The Eternal Vacation Hussein

I guess what I'm feeling is buyers remorse, started feeling that around 2010-2012

Offline Christo

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #102 on: January 12, 2015, 09:47:22 pm »
+2
Freaking Mr Hamas himself Erdogan and Netanyahu went, but no sign of The Eternal Vacation Hussein

I guess what I'm feeling is buyers remorse, started feeling that around 2010-2012

btw on Erdogan:

(click to show/hide)

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Somebody has a bit too much of a sultan complex
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2015, 09:49:11 pm »
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I originally voted for the guy in the White House and what is he doing?  Making an ass of himself and his office by portraying a lazy, uncaring American stereotype only interested in the playoffs.
Infront of who did he make an ass of himself? Like Christo said, kinda random shady fuckers in that march. Doesnt make em Jesus and better than Obama. We dont actually know that he stayed to watch the playoffs. Could have been just relaxing or taking a break or doing some busywork. Could have just been EU media, acting all dicky again, always looking for a moment to rip US government a new asshole(not that they dont deserve it) and than instantly licking it when Russia starts screwing around again. I think anyone who read into this too deeply made an ass of himself. Obamas fine, when it comes to this atleast.

Compared to Erdogan, whose totally fucked in the head, I doubt hes got anything on Obama.

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #104 on: January 12, 2015, 09:49:34 pm »
+1
btw on Erdogan:

(click to show/hide)

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Somebody has a bit too much of a sultan complex

Oh lol

WE WILL RESTORE THE CALIPHATE   :lol: