Author Topic: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0  (Read 9247 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2015, 10:40:21 pm »
+1
Could you please elaborate this for non-french speakers?

Basically some high-school students disturb the minute of silence because they think the attack against Charlie Hebdo was justified.

Indeed.  Good satirists hit all targets (Christian, Jewish, etc), yet there's a portion of people in this country angry at Charlie Hebdo's depictions of Muhammad etc.

This sums up US media pretty good

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There's a very obvious rift between freedom of speech in France and "freedom of speech" in the US. I'd wager France is of the most "extremist" states in the world in that regard (i.e. most republican in the French sense). Satirical comics used to be way, way more hardcore though, even in France.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 10:43:45 pm by Kafein »

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2015, 10:41:44 pm »
0
Basically some high-school students disturb the minute of silence because they think the attack against Charlie Hebdo was justified.

Were there any punishments for the kids?  Seems appropriate given the context.  That shouldn't be tolerated.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 10:50:21 pm by lombardsoup »

Offline Teeth

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2015, 10:44:01 pm »
0
The Charlie Hebdo attack is a much more powerful symbol. 4 of the victims were in the top ten of French language satire. It's extremely obvious the only target was freedom of speech. That's why this attack gets even more attention than random public transport bombings in western countries. That's also why this is an important subject for debate. Some people just plainly don't understand the value of freedom of speech. That is a major problem and without this event most other people would not be aware of that. With the mixed reactions it becomes increasingly obvious that political correctness is a disease that needs to be dealt with.

I think that the "great" thing about this event is that the issue of freedom of speech overshadows everything else. Whereas when random people die the only way to make an interesting story for the media is via fear mongering. In this case, the widespread support is all about freedom. It's not an overreaction.
Yes, agreed, I like the aspect of 'freedom of speech' that can be connected to this, but there's still a lot of room for fear-mongering and populist rhetoric at least in the coverage of my country. This grants terrorists a much more impactful weapon than the real physical threat should merit. My usage of the term overreaction was referring to terrorism as a whole and not specifically this incident, but with half of Europe being on high alert and flooding the streets with armed personnel it is heading towards it.

What is the proper reaction?  Forget stepping over the line, we're no where close to it.  Can't screen, can't profile.  Any potential solution is categorized as over-reactive and nothing ends up being done.
Mourn and then let it slide, relativize without trivializing. There have been like 250 deaths to terrorism in Europe in the past ten years, there is no significant threat. The fear-mongering is entirely disproportionate and the attention politicians and media give to terrorism is the only reason it is worthwhile for terrorists.

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2015, 10:47:18 pm »
0
Mourn and then let it slide, relativize without trivializing.

Won't it just happen again?  Islamists consider this weakness and have exploited this inaction; they know the west isn't going to do squat.

Note I'm not suggesting the elimination of freedoms as was done in America...but for fucks sake it was known where the attackers were trained prior to the attacks.  At the very least, they should have been barred from reentering the country.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2015, 10:53:21 pm »
0
Were there any punishments for the kids?  Seems appropriate given the context.

Probably. That's irrelevant anyway. It's revolting that young people going to school end up being so fucked up.

Yes, agreed, I like the aspect of 'freedom of speech' that can be connected to this, but there's still a lot of room for fear-mongering and populist rhetoric at least in the coverage of my country. This grants terrorists a much more impactful weapon than the real physical threat should merit. My usage of the term overreaction was referring to terrorism as a whole and not specifically this incident, but with half of Europe being on high alert and flooding the streets with armed personnel it is heading towards it.

Mourn and then let it slide, relativize without trivializing. There have been like 250 deaths to terrorism in Europe in the past ten years, there is no significant threat. The fear-mongering is entirely disproportionate and the attention politicians and media give to terrorism is the only reason it is worthwhile for terrorists.

Yeah, I wrote about that a little bit too. The only impact terrorism can have on our society is to convince us to curb our own freedoms for the sake of "security", real or imaginary.

Won't it just happen again?  Islamists consider this weakness and have exploited this inaction; they know the west isn't going to do squat.

It's exactly the opposite, the only thing they want is a reaction. A reaction sustains the conflict. The conflict sustains bigots on both sides of the fence. Besides, it's already hard as balls to do a terror attack.

Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2015, 10:53:54 pm »
+1
BASNAK you just became my personal forum hero!
Even facing total ignorance you take the time to confront stupidity with knowledge.
WHat makes a hero is him fighting a fight unlikely to be won.
This is what you do.
I salut.

Bit stupid imo. He's just feeding them so they can continue to shove down their opinions on him/others.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2015, 11:02:49 pm »
0
Probably. That's irrelevant anyway. It's revolting that young people going to school end up being so fucked up.

Yeah, I wrote about that a little bit too. The only impact terrorism can have on our society is to convince us to curb our own freedoms for the sake of "security", real or imaginary.

It's exactly the opposite, the only thing they want is a reaction. A reaction sustains the conflict. The conflict sustains bigots on both sides of the fence. Besides, it's already hard as balls to do a terror attack.

Seemed easy enough given the police response.  Islamists truly believe that they have the God given right to kill people they don't agree with.  Furthermore its tough to ignore away bullets and explosives.

The question remains as to how to deal with this problem without becoming like a certain nation that flushed its freedoms down the toilet.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2015, 11:06:55 pm »
0
Like we deal with organized crime. It's essentially the same thing, with the same financial weaknesses.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 12:03:26 am by Kafein »

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2015, 11:18:32 pm »
0
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Offline Xant

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2015, 11:22:13 pm »
0
Besides, it's already hard as balls to do a terror attack.
It really isn't. It's extremely easy to do fuck tons of damage if you're intelligent at all. Which means the Muslim terrorists offer little threat. Relatively few of them are willing to throw their lives away to make a shitty point anyway, or we'd be seeing a LOT more of these attacks. Like you say, the only thing they can achieve from these attacks is attention and the West fucking itself up with restrictions on everything and taking away freedoms from their own citizens.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2015, 11:28:29 pm »
0
Bit stupid imo. He's just feeding them so they can continue to shove down their opinions on him/others.

You're welcome to "shove" back with your own opinions. Oh wait they can be basically be resumed by "URRR RACIST". Maybe you could start yet another thread, this one is just full of problematic wrongthink.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2015, 11:33:36 pm »
0
It really isn't. It's extremely easy to do fuck tons of damage if you're intelligent at all. Which means the Muslim terrorists offer little threat. Relatively few of them are willing to throw their lives away to make a shitty point anyway, or we'd be seeing a LOT more of these attacks. Like you say, the only thing they can achieve from these attacks is attention and the West fucking itself up with restrictions on everything and taking away freedoms from their own citizens.

Didn't one of the cartoonists let them into the office?  That's really easy then

Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2015, 11:43:23 pm »
0
You're welcome to "shove" back with your own opinions. Oh wait they can be basically be resumed by "URRR RACIST". Maybe you could start yet another thread, this one is just full of problematic wrongthink.

I won't put fuel into the fire...although i kinda am by posting in this thread. Derp
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Offline sF_Guardian

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2015, 12:07:02 am »
0
After all everyone who smokes cigarettes is a member of a far more impactful terroristic group than any islamist...
Guess we should start droning ppl who smoke.
I don't want to give a feedback to molly neither i want to ban him,I wanted to give advise high authorities to take his admin rights.Panos you monkey wrench where would u put this topic enlighten me you cancer fuck.

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack, v 2.0
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2015, 12:09:38 am »
0
After all everyone who smokes cigarettes is a member of a far more impactful terroristic group than any islamist...
Guess we should start droning ppl who smoke.

We do that already through cig taxes