Is the melee gameplay staying like this?

[San]

I think melee (well, mostly 2 slot weapons) should always have high lethality, since 2slot melee weapons and IF are the largest differences between melee and other classes most of the time. In a game where you can have 1 guy at 45hp in 40 armor and another above 100hp in 79 armor, increasing survivability could have an extreme effect on tanks.

The wpf curve was alright for old levels, but they were likely not envisioned with level 35-37 as the norm since 7-13 WM likely assumed extremely low PS.

[Kafein]

I wonder why the game is such a total spam fest now then compared to before the patch. Before the patch you beat people's blocks by playing better, it wasn't about the speed of your attack but holds, feints, shit like that. Now its more dumbed down because its a case of brute forcing a fight - you win through better reactions and volume of attacks.

Now you're contradicting yourself. One post you want less blocking and more spamming and the next you want less spamming?

If you die in a couple hits you might as well try to get a lucky hit in with spam.

What happens is exactly the opposite actually. Spam only works if you can sustain the risk with a lot of HP. Spam tends to drive the outcome of a fight out of the player's hands and put it in control of whoever needs the fewest hits to kill the other.

Also the longer the fight goes on the longer people have to adapt to a fighting style which again results in the better player winning

Which means that again, players should be encouraged to primarily defend themselves.

Well I just see an awful lot of average - poor players getting cheap kills they wouldn't get before.

I think you just don't realize how bad some players who were successful before really were. Heavy armor and lots of HP enabled terrible players to kill via a figurative rape of the game's mechanics. Now that the HP sponginess has been toned down it's much harder.

There is a skill in some spamming, but it shouldn't be the go-to skill people use imo. The difference is like between a tactical shooter and a quake style twitch shooter. Different types of skills come into it. Muscle memory and reactions should take a back seat to more cerebral fighting styles imo

There's a huge difference between putting emphasis on spamming and putting emphasis on blocks. Having little room for error forces you to be either more skilled or more careful.

[Grumbs]

If you're getting spammed to death to the point you think the mechanics need to be changed your footwork sucks or you have the reaction speed of someone who has become old and retarded.

This is just a complaint that you can't keep up with the community's skill level.

Yeah, they're average or poor but they're doing better than you because they found a trick that you can't pull off.

You assume i'm talking about people killing me. My kpd went up about average .5 from before the patch despite being higher lvl than more people pre patch. The game got easier imo for the wrong people. Its got more elitist and at the same more shallow

Now you're contradicting yourself. One post you want less blocking and more spamming and the next you want less spamming?

Don't know what you're on about here. I suggested a way to keep spamming as a valid tactic for people who like that by making weapon stuns more prevalent. I'm easy either way though

Again though I'm yet to see other solutions to the spammy gameplay we have atm, because its definitely something that increased with the patch

[Horns_Archive]

People are asking for content updates and they haven't even released an official hot-patch for the patch of destiny. The patch of destiny is the last patch, there is no group of people willing to commit the time and energy into cRPG that would make it fun and enjoyable again. It's nobodies fault the mod is old and the original devs are busy, so it only makes sense. That is the reality of mod oriented games, when people aren't willing to volunteer it falls apart. So to answer the title of this thread: Yes. Everything is going to stay the exact same unless new leadership takes over but that is not up to anybody within the community, but with the original devs who are too busy with M:BG.

End rant.

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[jtobiasm]

Still can't believe people argue with grumbs, he's an average c-rpg player who relies on loom crutching.
He's been playing the Mod for 3 years and is still terrible, I think it's time to ignore him.

[Grumbs]

Still can't believe people argue with grumbs, he's an average c-rpg player who relies on loom crutching.
He's been playing the Mod for 3 years and is still terrible, I think it's time to ignore him.

The old "attack the character rather than the points raised". I must have really made you mad at me at some point its all you do atm

Loom crutch? Who doesn't have looms and I use body, gloves and a weapon (7 looms, 2 body, gloves, 2 poles and some other weapons). If i' terrible I must be lucky as hell

[Leshma]

At this point, looms create more issues than they have benefits.

[Kidduis]

Still can't believe people argue with grumbs, he's an average c-rpg player who relies on loom crutching.
He's been playing the Mod for 3 years and is still terrible, I think it's time to ignore him.

It's so fun to see you say that since i see you running around with loomed plate and a +3 katana with a str build and say stuff like that, this cranks me up..

[jtobiasm]

It's so fun to see you say that since i see you running around with loomed plate and a +3 katana with a str build and say stuff like that, this cranks me up..

You're seeing things

[Corsair831]

Does someone even play cRPG now ? Only thing I see from website is basically 15 to 30 people on EU1/EU2, and something around 5/10 people on DTV. Why can't you decide to move on ?

when you've invested so much time in something you enjoy, as all of us here have, it's nice to keep thinking about ways to improve upon it, even when they're no longer needed, and the dream has died

[Kafein]

The old "attack the character rather than the points raised". I must have really made you mad at me at some point its all you do atm

Well you didn't really raise any points either. That the game should be slower is your dumb opinion, it's not an argument.

As to why so much vitriol: I don't know, I don't have any specific reason to be so mean with you specifically.

[Grumbs]

Well I backed my opinion up with some theory behind it. When you're good at this game blocking is easy, it doesn't matter how "fast" you make it. Its easy pz. What you do infact is make it harder for the bad players, while making it easier for the good players to kill them. You make cheesing easier

Anyway this game doesn't need to be even more geared towards the "in the know" elites of the servers. We have like 30 guys players at peak, making it less accessible is the wrong direction to take imo. Less HP, harder gameplay (for the bads) is just making it less popular

Slowing everything down reduces the "twitch" mechanics prevelence..it allows people to use their brain more to win

[Kafein]

I object to that, slowing the game down emphasizes character builds and equipment over skill, which gives an advantage to long time players. But also it has a tendency to smooth out the outcomes i.e. the guy with the best equipment, build and skill will win more often if everybody can soak a lot of hits, which means those with less equipment, build and skill will win less often. Thirdly and perhaps most importantly, slowing the game down would once again increase the importance of numbers in melee combat, which is a much smellier cheese than anything a single guy can pull off.

[Gravoth_iii]

Just wondering if this is the gameplay how the devs envision it? To me its all about dancing around, spamming, holding S key and endless ganking. Doesn't feel very deep or tactical

This is nothing to do with melee vs ranged vs cav balance

How is it that people have such different experiences playing crpg now? To me there's plently of W, aswell as S-keying, both are needed in different situations. To avoid ganks and get upper hand on footwork, you need to S-key, to gank and get in to fights you need W, pretty basic stuff. Nothing wrong with it imo, i dont see why people hate on people backing out, just switch target, sheesh.

There is spam yes, but i always blame myself when i get spammed, shouldnt have feinted, should have had better positioning, shouldve just blocked etc etc.

Slowing down combat even further would be insane, any average player would probably block everything forever and we'd have neverending duels.

DONT NERF ANYTHING, BUFF AND MAKE GAMEPLAY MORE INTERESTING. NERFING SLOWS SHIT DOWN.

[Leshma]

I object to that, slowing the game down emphasizes character builds and equipment over skill, which gives an advantage to long time players. But also it has a tendency to smooth out the outcomes i.e. the guy with the best equipment, build and skill will win more often if everybody can soak a lot of hits, which means those with less equipment, build and skill will win less often. Thirdly and perhaps most importantly, slowing the game down would once again increase the importance of numbers in melee combat, which is a much smellier cheese than anything a single guy can pull off.

There is a difference between slowing down character movement and slower attacking speed. Currently, in cRPG some weapons and build combinations have that native like omfg attack speed, but most attacks are still painfully slow even for build with 24 AGI and more. Movement speed is through the roof, which means footwork has the biggest role. Since there are few players left, many of them have high ping (anything higher than 50 I consider as high ping), many of them are from different continents. Those players can't block and attack like those with normal ping, so they can only spam combined with good footwork. Which is how cRPG is atm. Native is completely different and relies heavily on attack and blocking patterns, due to lower average HP and armor fights last a lot shorter in Native.

In other words, cRPG combat is random while Native is tactical and predictable. Skill always wins in Native, in cRPG it is often combination of gear and luck.

I can block native macro spammers quite successfully. Can't do the same in cRPG because servers are pure garbage and lag is omnipresent regardless of what ping shows.