I'll try and go in order from where i'm sitting:
Suicide is an extreme act, in that regard it is not so much a special act but one that sits at the extreme end of 'affecting other people'. Consider the spectrum of being a random jerk to people who care about you, but ofc at an extreme end. Of course it's hard to quantify or generalize and context is everything. You might weigh two different instances differently:
Case 1: An extremely elderly person or one suffering the advanced stages of alzeimhers, they make their wishes known and see a mental health expert to confirm that they are not depressed or mentally incapable of making this as a rational decision. Also the professional takes due care that this person is in no way being coerced into taking this action. They make their wishes known and arguably those who love them see that this is kinder than the alternative.
Case 2: An emotionally unstable teenager either does not consider or care of the consequences their action may take. They slit their wrists or jump off a bridge with no forewarning and leave their family to pick up the pieces. They may or may not leave a suicide note saying 'I cant take it anymore' or words to that effect, the family always wonders what they could have done differently.
Yes they're 2 extremes. I dont draw the line anywhere, because you cant stop them and you certainly cant punish anyone after they're dead. What i feel is my own personal judgement of those people and their character, case 1 may or may not be something i would want to do, but case 2 is outright despicable. Maybe some dont see much of a difference, i feel from personal experience that although neither cases are particularly happy or good, it feels like the main Taboo and stigma lies along that distinction.
I don't feel a difference in the two in any meaningful distinction. If you want to put it in an emotional light.. then sure there's a difference but I don't see that as a meaningful distinction to compare the two unless that's what you're trying to discuss. Then we're discussing two different things.
Again, there's no 'should be allowed' since you cant prevent an individual from doing it. Maybe my wording was clumsy if my last post contained expressions like that. I know full well that 'fairness' isnt a factor, a person is fully able to be born, given a nice upraising in a loving family, and go kill themself before their 18th birthday, 'sorry ma and pa, i just dont like living, but thanks for trying'. I think it's a shame people like that exist in the first place, but they do, and ofc i wouldnt propose any sort of structure or 'emotional police' to protect the family. If the would-be suicider was a decent human being he'd be doing that himself.
When someone says should or ought in terms of an action, "one should not do x" or "should not want to do x", this is putting forth an ought statement.
You said "If the would-be suicider was a decent human being he'd be doing that himself (not commiting suicide to protect his family's emotional state)." This is putting forth an ought statement. One should not commit suicide to protect their family.
This puts the emotional state of the family/friends over the life and emotional state of the would-be suicidal person. This says that the emotional trauma the family would go through should outweigh the emotional need or want of the suicidal person because a decent (good) person would do so.
I do not agree with this ought statement in the least.
The suicide itself and the person doing it, does it need emphasis? Their part in it can last a few minutes if they wish that to be the case, they go and pop their clogs, permadeath is on, and then it's everyone else who actually suffers and they can suffer for a long time. If it did not occur to them before they died what impact it would have, they certainly wont have much chance for remorse after. Once again, you cant stop them from doing it, but you can discourage it, give it a stigma and certainly not make it 'easy' for them to do it. I would have no sympathy for case 2, but i would have immeasurably more sympathy for case 2's family than case 1's family.
This is what I am trying to understand.. why make it be a stigma or a problem? Why should one weigh the emotional stress of the person's family and friends so heavily over the person's choice over their own life? Why are you focusing so much on this aspect even over the suicide itself? It seems vastly more important to you.
*edit* what order would you view things from then?
*edit edit* eeeeeeuuuuuurgh, now i see your other post that wasnt in reply to mine but answered in more depth. Dont wanna replace segments of text-wall so it remains ignored till next post - but i did read it!
I'm not sure what you mean by what order I see things from but if you did read my other post I hope it makes things clearer for you. Look forward to your next post.
