Author Topic: Suicide  (Read 6006 times)

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Havelle Registered Voter

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Suicide
« on: December 09, 2014, 02:03:52 am »
+4
I'm in the middle of writing one of my final paper which is on the topic of suicide. Its basically about the right to die in a physician assisted way for terminal ill folks before veering off into general suicide, culture attitudes, philosophy, and the like.

It seems like even having the idea of committing suicide is a big taboo but I can imagine quite a lot of people consider it at one point or another. I'd like to observe a few more viewpoints, so, I guess my question what are your own personal thoughts on committing suicide as a non terminally ill person? Is it the product of mental illness? Is it a fundamental right? Are these thoughts more common than we are led to believe? etc etc.

Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2014, 02:20:04 am »
+5
If this helps you, at all, and im not going to share an opinion about this, but only some information.(in my specific state atleast, of Maryland, though id assume this is the standard, since medical care is rather standard in the country)  Anyone who claims to feel the urge to harm themselves and tells an officer is detained, taken to the local hospital, and has an emergency petition done upon them to review their mental status.  They are then questioned by the hospital, and deemed whatever they evaluate.  They may release them upon their own will, or hold them for quite some time, but at that point, you are essentially owned by the state, and dont have a voice, until you are questioned of course.

It seems as though the government believes that you have a right to live, regardless of your belief, and of course they will medicate you to do so.  I unfortunately dont have much more information to give past the hospital questioning part, so the rest is a mystery.

Hopefully this will help you, either that or just raise further question and prolong what could be a controversial thread.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2014, 02:57:21 am »
+5
Dunno if you're familiar with Terry Pratchett at all, he's a satirical fantasy writer best know for his Discworld series. Anyways, he's got Alzheimers and has already made the decision to end his own life should there not be any inkling of a cure or treatment by the time he really starts losing his mental faculties. It focuses on the right of assisted suicide for terminally ill people, not so much suicide in general, but it goes into the moral etc reasoning and consequences. Very interesting:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnu340_terry-pratchett-choosing-to-die_shortfilms
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Offline SixThumbs

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2014, 03:00:06 am »
+5
In high school health class we had to write a paper on a "teen issue", underage drinking, pregnancy, smoking, drugs, etc.

I chose teen suicide and the teacher took me aside to ask me if I was depressed.  :|
And how!

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 05:56:29 am »
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Assuming this isn't some thread you made in the past, OP, here's something for your paper:

To disregard life to the point where you don't even value your own, attempting to reject the entire world, including your own existence, for some bullshit emokid edgelord reason as if you were God almighty is disgusting.  Suicide is the most self absorbed act an individual can commit.  Its shocking that people can even consider suicide, in first world nations especially where everything is handed to the population on a silver platter. 

To merely be breathing is a miracle that should be cherished.

Offline Sparvico

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 06:32:53 am »
+15
Counterpoint to Lombards (and do note this is not my own personal opinion, but devil's advocate is always useful):

Life is not something people consciously choose to partake in. It is quite literally forced on people at the moment of their birth. The idea that life is inherently valuable is simply a byproduct of evolution. To say that everyone must live as long as they possibly can disregards the notion that people should have freedom of will and thought. Moreover the idea that life is inherently good (i.e. enjoyable and worthwhile) is quite literally a humanly constructed moral value. Life as we see it in nature is neither good nor evil, it is neither worthwhile nor not worthwhile. It simply is. So to say that people should not be allowed to choose when and how they will die is tantamount to saying they should not have freedom of will.

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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 06:40:35 am »
+1
No, this is recent and thank you, this is what I'm looking for. I got all the factual stuff down and most of the paper written, I'm just looking for some opinions to get some creative juices flowing.

If you wouldn't mind a follow up, Are you religious lombard? If not, what is your personal meaning of life?

I'm not religious.  In having an understanding of both religious and non religious interpretations of suicide, and dealing with my own personal life, I couldn't really come to any other conclusion.

Counterpoint to Lombards (and do note this is not my own personal opinion, but devil's advocate is always useful):

Life is not something people consciously choose to partake in. It is quite literally forced on people at the moment of their birth. The idea that life is inherently valuable is simply a byproduct of evolution. To say that everyone must live as long as they possibly can disregards the notion that people should have freedom of will and thought. Moreover the idea that life is inherently good (i.e. enjoyable and worthwhile) is quite literally a humanly constructed moral value. Life as we see it in nature is neither good nor evil, it is neither worthwhile nor not worthwhile. It simply is. So to say that people should not be allowed to choose when and how they will die is tantamount to saying they should not have freedom of will.

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Fair enough, I'll play along. 

You can't have freedom of thought and will, or any thoughts at all for that matter, if you're dead, something the suicidal should take into account.  It all ends the moment you take your own life.

I see suicide as selfish escapism.  You give up everything once you take your own life.  No escape from the mean ol' world to enjoy if you're dead.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 06:46:19 am by lombardsoup »

Offline Taser

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 06:47:20 am »
+2
Counterpoint to Lombards (and do note this is not my own personal opinion, but devil's advocate is always useful):

Life is not something people consciously choose to partake in. It is quite literally forced on people at the moment of their birth. The idea that life is inherently valuable is simply a byproduct of evolution. To say that everyone must live as long as they possibly can disregards the notion that people should have freedom of will and thought. Moreover the idea that life is inherently good (i.e. enjoyable and worthwhile) is quite literally a humanly constructed moral value. Life as we see it in nature is neither good nor evil, it is neither worthwhile nor not worthwhile. It simply is. So to say that people should not be allowed to choose when and how they will die is tantamount to saying they should not have freedom of will.

(click to show/hide)

These are my personal feelings on the matter so I agree with this.

To say life is worthwhile assumes a great deal. And it denies people the ability to control their own self. If I or someone else wants to commit suicide, what's the problem with that? Why must it be constricted or denied?

Why should you be allowed to deny anyone the ability to take their own life, whether they are terminally ill or not. If someone wants to die, to stop them from being able to do so tramples upon their own choices.

Merely breathing isn't a miracle.. nor is it something that must be cherished for its own sake.

The usual counterpoint is when someone says what if your mother/father/wife/gf/sibling/cousin/etc committed suicide, wouldn't you want to stop them?

And the answer is twofold.. I absolutely would in the case of loved ones.. I also would not prevent them from doing so. When someone is at the edge that suicide is better than living even one more day, to try and force them to live against their own will.. is wildly selfish and arrogant.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 06:54:21 am »
-1
These are my personal feelings on the matter so I agree with this.

To say life is worthwhile assumes a great deal. And it denies people the ability to control their own self. If I or someone else wants to commit suicide, what's the problem with that? Why must it be constricted or denied?

Why should you be allowed to deny anyone the ability to take their own life, whether they are terminally ill or not. If someone wants to die, to stop them from being able to do so tramples upon their own choices.

Merely breathing isn't a miracle.. nor is it something that must be cherished for its own sake.

The usual counterpoint is when someone says what if your mother/father/wife/gf/sibling/cousin/etc committed suicide, wouldn't you want to stop them?

And the answer is twofold.. I absolutely would in the case of loved ones.. I also would not prevent them from doing so. When someone is at the edge that suicide is better than living even one more day, to try and force them to live against their own will.. is wildly selfish and arrogant.

It isn't any more arrogant and selfish than coddling people that have given up and allowing them a power trip via taking their own lives.  Its a little tough to have "control" over anything once you've relinquished it by killing yourself.

There's a reason why we make fun of suicidal emo kids.  Its because the whole notion of taking your own life for some fake control or attention is self absorbed in the extreme.

Offline Taser

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 06:56:23 am »
+2
It isn't any more arrogant and selfish than coddling people that have given up and allowing them a power trip via taking their own lives.  Its a little tough to have "control" over anything once you've relinquished it by killing yourself.

Its control over their own lives. Yeah it ends once they killed themselves but that was the whole point.

And lol that its coddling to allow people control over when they die.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 06:59:36 am »
0
Its control over their own lives. Yeah it ends once they killed themselves but that was the whole point.

And lol that its coddling to allow people control over when they die.

Its control for the few seconds/minutes that you're taking your own life.  Once you're dead you can't even experience the concepts of freedom, control, or anything else for that matter.

Such a waste.

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 07:03:30 am »
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Right, but you are going to die someday anyway. Why not be on your own terms?

You're indeed correct, we all do eventually die someday.  Accept it, and keep living until you die.

Gee that was hard.   :lol:  That's another thing, I don't get why people fear death when its as natural as life.

Offline Taser

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 07:04:15 am »
+3
Its control for the few seconds/minutes that you're taking your own life.  Once you're dead you can't even experience the concepts of freedom, control, or anything else for that matter.

Such a waste.

Its only a waste if you think its a waste.

And here's the thing, the people considering suicide... don't consider that its a waste.

And like Havelle just pointed out, we all die. Why does it matter if you die at 30 or 15 vs 70 or 90? To say "because its a waste" misses the point.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 07:08:17 am »
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Its only a waste if you think its a waste.

And here's the thing, the people considering suicide... don't consider that its a waste.

And like Havelle just pointed out, we all die. Why does it matter if you die at 30 or 15 vs 70 or 90? To say "because its a waste" misses the point.

The thought process that by ending your existence you get a few seconds of control is the waste.  Why not fight, even if the end result is futile?  Why the "woe is me I'm giving up, I can finally have some control over my life by killing myself" crap?

Offline Taser

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 07:18:26 am »
+3
The thought process that by ending your existence you get a few seconds of control is the waste.  Why not fight, even if the end result is futile?  Why the "woe is me I'm giving up, I can finally have some control over my life by killing myself" crap?

Because some things you can't fight. And some people don't want to, etc etc. There's a long list of reasons, some I would find valid and some I would not but there are plenty of reasons to commit suicide.

Have you seen the video on youtube where the guy sang blackbird to his newborn child who died not long after? His wife died in labor and that was his firstborn child.

If ever there was a reason to commit suicide, that would be it or rank among the top. He isn't afaik but hell if I wouldn't blame him in the least. There are many other people in his place, that if they went through the same events, wouldn't be able to bear it.

I honestly am surprised he didn't. That's a hard one to bear.

There are other reasons but for you, its not an option. Now that could be because you never had a reason that was strong enough, like perhaps the above, or because even if that did happen you would chin up and push your way through. I'm not saying you're sheltered or that you're a heartless guy, just saying that you obviously don't see a reason to do it since you would want to fight your way through. Not everyone is the same or would be able to hold that same attitude in certain situations.

But to say that suicide is cowardly ignores why people do it. And its usually due to hopelessness. Once someone loses all hope, any idea of fighting is pointless. Why fight if there is no reason to fight or that your old reason to fight is the one you lost?
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