Cavalry stuff

[Frell]

Ok. I rerolled and I chose cavalry and 1h/shield.

Ive had a lance for 15 minutes and I can already tell you they're over powered. Kills are ridiculously easy to get.

Thanks.

[Keshian]

I agree with giving a small hitpoint/armor buff to the horses.  The thing is the tier 2 and 3 horses have a rather high level of both maneuverability and speed (especially courser and arabian warhorse).  Part of the original problem was lowering agility requirement to 3 per riding skill, so raising the riding requirement is not going to fix the problem as most cav have over the requirement already because you can still do a balanced build and get 6-7 riding and each point in riding skill significantly increases the horse's speed and maneuverability. 

Prior to January patch throwers were not OP because most archers countered them because the archers were OP.  After the archer nerfs in January, it finally became apparent over the next few months that throwers were OP (by the way the thrower nerf was a trifle too harsh, coming from a guy who hates throwing).  So too OP throwers and everybody being able to be a pocket pikemen kept cavalry's basic OPness in check.  But now with most pikes gone except for a few dedicated pikemen with no other weapon and throwers nerfed badly and hybrid xbowmen/archers significantly reduced in amount of ammo, cavalry are having a field day of OPness.  I am hoping it doesn't take another 3 months, like they took with throwing, before balancing cavalry, Ia lso hope they don't go too overboard like they did with throwers.

My suggestion:  Make riding a 6 agility skill requirement again and reduce the riding requirement of all horses by 1  (I would love to see mounted infantry again with sumpter horse riders).  The few people who still want to ride the plated charger can, just as almost pure agility, but most people will have to do balanced builds and have 3-4 riding skill.  This can be accompanied by +20 hitpoints, +5 armor on all the unarmored horses and +2 speed, +2 maneuverability on all the armored horses.  We would see cav diversity on the battlefield again and there would be real tradeoffs for choosing riding skill as it would require a stronger commitment to agilty, so less hitting power and hitpoints.

[Sir_Mateusz]

Ok. I rerolled and I chose cavalry and 1h/shield.

Ive had a lance for 15 minutes and I can already tell you they're over powered. Kills are ridiculously easy to get.

Thanks.

I play lancer 543h (steam timer) and belive me they are not op. Maybe i am not so super-good-mega-skilled player as you are, but i know that you have to think hard to kill and not to get killed in battle, especialy last days because there is a lot of horsemans and this stupid, bad, very bad Horsefriendly archers ;D on the battlefield.
I remember when cav was sux and there were only few of us... good old times

@LOL i didnt ment Horsefriendly its a conspiracy!

[Damug]

My suggestion:  Make riding a 6 agility skill requirement again and reduce the riding requirement of all horses by 1  (I would love to see mounted infantry again with sumpter horse riders).  The few people who still want to ride the plated charger can, just as almost pure agility, but most people will have to do balanced builds and have 3-4 riding skill.  This can be accompanied by +20 hitpoints, +5 armor on all the unarmored horses and +2 speed, +2 maneuverability on all the armored horses.  We would see cav diversity on the battlefield again and there would be real tradeoffs for choosing riding skill as it would require a stronger commitment to agilty, so less hitting power and hitpoints.

The problem with requiring 6 agi per ride skill point is that to ride any of the 'armored' horses you wouldn't have the str to wear decent armor yourself, so you'd have a plated charger while wearing chainmail at most yourself.   That's even taking into consideration that you also suggest dropping the skill requirements for the various horses.

[Frell]

I will retract my statement. The less the players, the easier lancing is.

[Sir_Mateusz]

I will retract my statement. The less the players, the easier lancing is.

I disagree. Its not easier at all.  If there is less players they can see you coming for them easily - they are more vigilant
I dont mean any individuals, there are good player and not so good, i say generaly.

[Keshian]

The problem with requiring 6 agi per ride skill point is that to ride any of the 'armored' horses you wouldn't have the str to wear decent armor yourself, so you'd have a plated charger while wearing chainmail at most yourself.   That's even taking into consideration that you also suggest dropping the skill requirements for the various horses.

Not really, the warhorse to charger series would require 24 agility (4 riding), which still allows 12 to 15 strength depending on how many skill points you convert.  If you want to use heavier armor like the plate mail (though who would want to pay upkeep of plate mail and warhorse at same time, bankrupt in 2 maps), then you simply would have to make the tradeoff of converting 8 instead of 2 skill points and getting 15 strength.  You should have 2-3 less skill points in riding so that should make it slightly easier.

Courser/Arabian Warhorse would require 18 agility (3 riding) and you could have 18 to 21 strength depending on skill point conversion.

You get the real tradeoff, when you try to use plated charger/mameluke horses, which would now require 5 riding (30 agility), so you would be limited to 6 strength, most likely 9 strength as you would convert the skill points unless you want to ride around with a steel shield.  A real tradeoff that few will wish to do and would balance the fact that armored horses themselves are getting a couple extra points in speed and maneuverability.

[Damug]

You can't even use a light lance with 6 strength, and you can only use a light lance with 9 strength.  In effect, your suggestion would stop anyone from using the 'most armored' horses ever again.

[Digglez]

My suggestion:  Make riding a 6 agility skill requirement again and reduce the riding requirement of all horses by 1  (I would love to see mounted infantry again with sumpter horse riders).  The few people who still want to ride the plated charger can, just as almost pure agility, but most people will have to do balanced builds and have 3-4 riding skill.  This can be accompanied by +20 hitpoints, +5 armor on all the unarmored horses and +2 speed, +2 maneuverability on all the armored horses.  We would see cav diversity on the battlefield again and there would be real tradeoffs for choosing riding skill as it would require a stronger commitment to agilty, so less hitting power and hitpoints.

Controlling a warhorse is no more difficult then controlling a highly maneuverable thoroughbred.  The nonsense that a plated horse requires the most riding skill is just silly.

The horses need to be broken down into equal but separate tiers, armored and unarmored.  Arabian should cost as much and same riding requirement as plated charger.

[Bulzur]

Reverting back to 1 riding per 6 agility will actually increase the number of cav, since any 18 agi build can decide to put "just" three points in Riding and start wrecking havoc. Cavs won't be dedicated, since they "only" need a max of 5 skill points for it.
Don't think it's a good idea.

[Vibe]

As much as I DISAGREE with cav being OP, the changes suggested are okay.
Except for the increased cost one.
LEAVE MY GOLD ALONE D:

[Keshian]

You can't even use a light lance with 6 strength, and you can only use a light lance with 9 strength.  In effect, your suggestion would stop anyone from using the 'most armored' horses ever again.

Then convert piints and go 9 strength, but in your assumption lies one of the main reasons cavalry is OP too.  That they have to use a lollance to rack up the kills.  If you are using an almost unkillable plated charger, just go 1her with shield on whoreback, if you really want to use a light lance you can, but you are not going to be using the ultimate outranging tool of the heavy lance on a plated charger.  Its called a tradeoff.  The normal lance and the heavy lance outrange all but the longest polearms, which combined with excess maneuerability and speed, any cav can turn around you just out of range and yet stab you OR just charge straight ahead and couch lance kill easily almost any 2her.

[ToxicKilla]

I agree with most of this (I'm a cavalry player, 18 str 18 agi 6 riding, one handed/polearm), Apart from the cost. I believe the armoured horses are priced about right. Leave them. But increase price of unarmoured horses by 15% or so. As the extra speed makes up for the lower durability.  Which most people want the speed.

[polkafranzi]

So, yes, cavalry is OP.

I read this first line and couldn't be bothered with the rest of the essay - seen it all before.  Toxic steam me if it's actually not another nerf cav speech pls.

EDIT:

20:25 - polkafranzi: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,6458.new.html#new
20:25 - polkafranzi: read my post
20:25 - Dam You: nope its not
20:25 - Dam You: it actually buffs it alot
20:25 - polkafranzi:
20:25 - Dam You: apart from the god damn fucking cost
20:25 - Dam You: apart from that
20:25 - Dam You: it means all horses are best at differant shiz
20:26 - Dam You: and
20:26 - Dam You: charger buffed

-_- and at same time

[Furax]

Stop hating, especially you kesh, assuming uve been lanced in the ass while ur tunneling inn on some poor peasent one too many times and you would rather be the immortal god of everything owning all other classes and if anything kills you its OP and needs to be removed from the game.

And bane, grab a lance yourself and put up a fight instead of using that morningstar all over the place and QQ when you cant jumpslash all the lancer cav after uve been dehorsed by foolishly trying to outrange a lance.

Sorry, im just sick of all the fucking whine.