Upkeep of different classes

[Wallace]

Fail troll is fail

[Damug]

Fail troll is fail

What?

[zagibu]

I think the real reason why plate is not so common anymore is because of the WPF progress curve. It is now impossible to have 180+ wpf, so the WPF hit when using heavy armor is quite noticeable.

If it was simply upkeep, plate users would only have disappeared slowly, because some ppl have HUGE stacks of gold from before patch time that would have allowed them to largely ignore upkeep for a long while.

[Cup1d]

Now let's see a realistic cavalry equipment :

Courser 19818
Knightly Arming Sword 8944
Heraldic Mail with Tabard 7170
Open sallet 5645
Knightly Heather Shield 4328
Splinted Leather Greaves over mail 1817
Mail mittens 1376

An half decent cavalry loadout is 3x the total price of your archer equipment. Take a very bad horse and you can push it to 2.5x. A decent infantry loadout is roughly 2x more than the archery equivalent. When you want to survive to projectiles a little longer, you can easily add 10k.


So yes, money exchange between alts would certainly make up a little bit for the serious class imbalances caused by upkeep (see the numbers above).

My equip for main char (archer)
Warbow - 11100
Bodkin arrows - 5058
Langes messer - 7517
Wisby gauntlets - 4848
Green Tunic over Mail - 3459
Mail Chausses - 1290
Hood - 45
____________________________
33317


My equip for 2H alt
Heraldic Mail with Surcoat - 6375
Nordic Huscarl's Helmet - 2478
Wisby gauntlets - 4848
Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail - 1817
Danish Greatsword - 15922
Throwing Knives - 496
Throwing Knives - 496
_________________________
32432

My equip for Pole alt
Heraldic Mail with Surcoat - 6375
Nordic Huscarl's Helmet - 2478
Wisby gauntlets - 4848
Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail - 1817
Bec de Corbin - 9506
Throwing Knives - 496
Throwing Knives - 496
_____________________________
26016

My equip for lancer\1H
Lance - 4386
Round Cavalry Shield - 1874
Scimitar - 4394
Desert Horse - 12345
Sarranid Mail Shirt - 5823
Mail Gauntlets - 3427
Sarranid Mail Boots - 1627
Shahi - 1936
______________________________
35799


What are you talking about, mates? Are you joking?

[Tears of Destiny]

Your archer is a rare hybrid using an expensive sword, and sporting a higher armor then most archers do along with a decent wpf hit, to be fair most warbow users are not going to go into battle with just 15 shots, nor are they going to take the wpf hit from all of that armor. Tobe also fair, his example cav build that he posted had a higher costing sword and a much higher costing helmet then I would use for a standard cav build meant to be sustainable.

[BlackMilk]

You can do well, but it's a lot harder. Ninjas generally get their asses kicked in group combat, they only thrive on backstabs. Even then the ninja loadout costs the same as a fairly high-end setup for a dedicated archer with no heavy armour.

usual Ninjaeqiupment :
Katana - 9,376
Black Lamellar Vest - 3,342
Scale/Lamellar Gauntlets - 6,547
What makes 19,265 gold and up to 1k repair cost each round, if youre unlucky. As you can see, being a Ninja doesnt have to make you rich, but not even I can deny that fact that you wont loose much/any gold most likely.

[Cup1d]

Your archer is a rare hybrid using an expensive sword, and sporting a higher armor then most archers do along with a decent wpf hit, to be fair most warbow users are not going to go into battle with just 15 shots, nor are they going to take the wpf hit from all of that armor. Tobe also fair, his example cav build that he posted had a higher costing sword and a much higher costing helmet then I would use for a standard cav build meant to be sustainable.

Rare hybrid? I suggest you are playing on NA servers?
Expensive sword? Used Tears prepatch. Tears was expensive. And now I need weapon for my 60 wpf in 2H.
Sporting a higher armor then most archers You mean - low level archers? Or suiciders that preferred to be oneshotted\onehitted\onebumped?


Well. I have another set for sieges
Strongbow - 7896
Bodkin arrows - 5058
Bodkin arrows - 5058
Langes messer - 7517
Mail gauntlets - 3427
Studded Leather Coat - 2679
Rus Cavalry Boots - 412
Hood - 45
___________________________
32092


Or standart Open field set
War Bow - 11100
Bodkin arrows - 5058
Bodkin arrows - 5058
Hammer - 589
Mail gauntlets - 3427
Green Tunic over Mail - 3459
Rus Cavalry Boots - 412
Hood - 45
___________________________
29148


Just for fun - maximal infantry loadout
Black Armor - 34239
Heavy Gauntlets - 16303
Black Greaves - 4627
Armet - 9754
Danish Greatsword - 15922
Crossbow - 10474
Steel Bolts - 2563
_____________________________
90882

Now I know Kafein's dreambuild:)

[Baggy]

Ive never seen many archers that wear that much armour wit that expemsive sword.Most that i see wear low lvl armour like leather or gambesons.

[Keshian]

Ive never seen many archers that wear that much armour wit that expemsive sword.Most that i see wear low lvl armour like leather or gambesons.

Thats mostly because archers get punished more for wearing heavy armor (one of the patches pre-January), its not that archers might not want to wear medium to heavy armor like everyone else and watch themselves lose gold, its that we can't, we get a much bigger wpf penalty than other classes if we do so.  So if any melee classes wore the same light armors that archers are forced to wear they would be making gold regularly too.  (On my melee alts, I never wear body armor greater than 15.5 lb, usually under 10 lbs and find never have issues making plenty of gold, most of them have less upkeep than my archer because similar armor, 1 weapon (<10K) which is cheaper than a strong bow + 2 sets of arrows+melee weapon(~21,500)).

Oh and my outfit:

Cavalry Robe (red): 3,582
Felt hat (red): 32
Rus Cavalry Boots (red): 412
Mail Gauntlets: 3,427
Fighting Axe: 3,375
Strong Bow: 7,896
Bodkin Arrows: 5,058
Bodkin Arrows: 5,058

Total: 28,840

Anything x2 multiplier or higher am making money. Losing only a little at x1.  Used to be less, but pretty much every patch increases the prices of bows and arrows.  (18,000 alone for a strong bow + 2 sets of bodkins running around naked)

[Tears of Destiny]

New Outfit:
Warbow (11,100)
Hammer (589)
2X Arrows (322)
Felt Cap (23)
Tribal Warrior Outfit (1,569)
Leather Gloves (289)
Wrapping Boots (1)
Total: 13,893

Old Outfit:
Warbow (11,100)
Hatchet (65)
2X Bodkin  Arrows (10,116)
Felt Cap (23)
Tribal Warrior Outfit (1,569)
Red Wisby Gauntlets (4,848)
Nomad Boots (236)
Total: 27,957

[Keshian]

New Outfit:
Warbow (11,100)
Hammer (589)
2X Arrows (322)
Felt Cap (23)
Tribal Warrior Outfit (1,569)
Leather Gloves (289)
Wrapping Boots (1)
Total: 13,893

Old Outfit:
Warbow (11,100)
Hatchet (65)
2X Bodkin  Arrows (10,116)
Felt Cap (23)
Tribal Warrior Outfit (1,569)
Red Wisby Gauntlets (4,848)
Nomad Boots (236)
Total: 27,957

Why the normal arrows if you are using 2 sets??  Do you reguarly go through more than 30 arrows that you need 48 at the cost of 4 damage (6 damage with 6 powerdraw)?  Thats where you are really going cheap though where you have 10K less in equipment costs.  Plus your setup with the red wisby gauntlets still was under 7.5 with 2x weight calculated in for gauntlets so no impact on wpf, why switch?  Trying to save money?  The old outfit seemed in line with most archers upkeep cost.

[Tears of Destiny]

Yup, old outfit was actually rather good besides the Hatchet thing (I like the hammer more now).

The change in gear was due to me trying to increase my speed and milk my athletics further after being caught by several people in a row (now I can barely run fast enough to turn shoot run and repeat, or outrun the average ninja-esque blitzer and get back to the safety of my squadmates, though I do also have one more athletics then I used to as well). I am considering going back but I am still tough enough to survive many shots, so if I do switch back I may grab the gauntlets and just ditch the boots (I rarely, very rarely, get shot in the foot when playing my Archer).

The arrows are because with my bodkins I was two-shotting my average opponent, and now switching to arrows I am still two-shotting my average opponent. I still bring down coursers in an average of two to three shots (or one if the lunatic is running fast enough right towards me), so the extra 60% increase in ammunition is pleasing me greatly.

Also I have picked up a few tricks from a few clan mates on making long distance shots easier, so I find that I am sniping far more often then usual, and providing "harassing/suppression" fire more then I usually do.

If I am not playing on a larger server pop', I do admit that I often swap out for Bodkins.

I do, however, also admit that now I need an average of four arrows to take out Transitional targets, where as I used to only need three. But since I am getting better with headshots, I find that I don't really care.

EDIT: The Old outfit is very much in line with the typical warbow user for upkeep costs, I do agree. Oh, and I do get a perverse pleasure in knowing that the average archer can not use my arrows without triggering the "reset to 1" glitch when sniping back at me.

[Keshian]

EDIT:  Oh, and I do get a perverse pleasure in knowing that the average archer can not use my arrows without triggering the "reset to 1" glitch when sniping back at me.

Curse you, you foul brigand, I want to kill you with your own arrows.

[Tydeus]

I have two melee sets, a light and a plate, as do most melee. If there isn't much ranged going on, I'll more apt to wear my light set and sometimes I even switch out my helmet on my light set, simply because of long ranged archers. Also, since reaching level 32, I've started using the cavalry robe since I had extra points to spare.

Light Set
Miaodao:8376
Cavalry Robe:3582
Gilded Hourglass Gauntlets:8929
Magyar Helmet:1219
Splinted Greaves with Spurs:2728
Elite Cavalry Shield:3812
Total:28646

Plate Set
Miaodao:8376
Churburg Cuirass:24066
Gilded Hourglass Gauntlets:8929
Litchina Helm:6723
Cased Greaves:4262
Elite Cavalry Shield:3812
Total:56168

I'm a 27/12 build thus plate is the ideal set for my build. I'd love to see an archer with more than 40K upkeep for their "ideal" build. You'd be nerfing the shit out of your wpf, thus it wouldn't be "ideal". It's because of class restrictions that archers make more money on average. The total upkeep an archer can have before they lose effectiveness is rather low, there is no such thing for melee builds. Even if you're a 15/21 build, you still benefit from heavier armor far more than an archer would.

As for cavalry, there is nothing keeping them from wearing heavier gear, aside from upkeep costs. Cavalry still needs to be wearing a decent amount of armor. Just because they ride a horse and are, for the majority of the fight, not in melee, they still have to plan for melee eventually. Meaning Lancers and 1h/2h Cavalry have to be wearing armor appropriate for melee. Just because most cav or melee wear medium/light gear doesn't mean they don't gain huge benefits from heavier gear, thus heavy is ideal.

[Keshian]

So, I'm not quite sure what people are trying to request.  So because the "ideal" build for archers (thanks to countless nerfs) is light weight armor and they have a moderate upkeep thanks to bow + bodkin arrows being more expensive than any 1 melee weapon on par with a medium armor clad melee and a lightly armored cavalry player, what are you looking for?  Bows should be expensive as horses?  All ranged weapons should be as expensive as plate mail, so tin can melee players don't feel like theya re not making as much money?  Not really sure what the point of the thread is, other than that cavalry players and tin cnas should be able to have their supposed "ideal" build (light cav don't use heavy armor or heavy horses, their "ideal" build is based on speed) of an armored horse or plate mail respectively and pay the same upkeep as people going with light armor that can be killed in 1 hit by their lance/greatsword, while their horses takes at least 3 hits before it goes down or they need 6-7 hits themselves to die in their plate mail. 

Archers die quickly in light armor, melee people die in fewer hits in light armor, cavalry player die in less hits with light armor: the tradeoff for all of them is less upkeep.  Bows+arrows or xbows+bolts are already as expensive as a mid-tier horse, what more are you looking for.  That somehow you get the benefit of a horse and all its hitpoints and freedom of movement and it should be cheaper than people's melee weapon or ranged equipment or you should be able to swing a german greatsword while wearing plate mail for the same upkeep as an archer who dies in one hit?  I kind of feel like this thread has gone way beyond its original point, which is that some cav guy was complaining that archer's upkeep was too low compared to other classes and they make too much money (ignoring the fact that archers can ride an expensive horse too if they just throw a few points into riding, but they choose not to, just like many choose not to wear heavy armor because of upkeep or because of maneuverbility or wpf hit or because black armored-armet people deserve to be made fun of, etc.)