Author Topic: The death of Horse archery  (Read 4638 times)

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Offline kojiro34

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The death of Horse archery
« on: October 22, 2014, 09:59:16 pm »
+8
Ok i must write something about this patch. Sorry for my bad English – lol.
If you just want to says, "die HA" you can just be quiet.  Try to understand instead of be a ****

At first i thought that the stupid ideas i read on the forum were never going to put in game.  I was wrong but since none seem to play HA in the "dev" so they just seem to guess.

First of all if you played on NA1 you prolly know me and hate me (I am well know to kill all horses except heavy horse (almost impossible to kill) and I were somewhat “dominant” as HA (not the best) for the last year. I have done more that 25 gens as HA over the last 2 years  and I were level 34 (now 37 in the currently state). So of course I had advantage over all level 31 and below build.

Pros of HA in the old state
High survivability
Mobility
Many tactics possible if you know what you doing

Cons of HA
Low dmg
Low accuracy while moving
Maybe 30 % of the map we are worthless
Flag fight isn’t good for us


With a good shield anyone with some athletic and some skill could kill me. Of course I could kill him too with a shot when he side jump headswing me but it hard and unreliable (luck based) some player always killed me.
Hoplite win 80% of the time.
All archer /thrower/ xbower  could kill me
I could get couch or kill by cav but honestly I was really specialize at killing cav to help my team so it was really hard for them.  Only the big heavy horse wasn’t really my target (I have 2 or 3 names of the players that I was mainly just tag them when they near but wasting 5 minutes to try to kill them when they were just ignoring me lol.
2 handed / polearm hmm some agility where able to survive long enough avoiding all arrows but it only a matter of time if they alone I will kill them if I have enough arrows otherwise they should always win when out of arrows.
Other HA usually a joke and I was always focusing on them first since they usually an easy kill for me if they was alone (but of course something I got killed by them )

All of this was before the patch – but yeah with the raising of the level we could all use a little balance I guess but not like this. I saw more HA in the past weeks but only few were good good enough to do something.

Now
Level 37 HA 15-30    and I can barely kill a player 3-5 kills for 4 to 7 round and my horse kill them. With a map with many horses I can still top the board but well…. Like I said it was always my strongest skill.
The fact: 5 or 6 PD I must hit 8 times in the torso someone with 50-55 armor (using bodkin but same with tartar) so it’s more than 1 bodkin stack to kill 1 person (with armor and full health of course) and I have 49 arrows…. And I cant HS anymore people…
The nerf :
1) Lowering the speed of horse by 20 %.....  ok,  but everyone should get it (athletic too), since the base speed of horse is higher everything will be slower and even more the horse. Some people run faster than me horse… lol almost. I can live with it.
2) Lowering the ammo: ouch it really hurt my dmg output because if you don’t know yet HA must fire all the time to hit people we miss a lot of our arrows when we are on horse and moving.  Again, I could live with this since it make some funny thing happening at the end of the round where I must take a weapon to finish the fight. BUT you have ot fix the damn bug where when I grab an arrow i drop every other arrows…. 
3) Lowering the dmg of bows by 2 points… hmm some bows are useless now and I don’t understand the idea between this… people use bigger armor (not always I agree), more athletic, more IF, more shield, etc  and us we getting less dmg… you already nerfing the dmg output with the ammo. No point for this
4) 20 % reduction from been mounted (it already 20 % I think or 10% ….) come on, our dmg output is already negligible and now you still nerfing it. We cannot stack power draw if you didn’t knew, we need HA/HR so wtf… sorry  but I cannot put 8 power draw. It was never our dmg the problem.

5) Dmg capped to 15
6) The weight : no effect on us.
The solution :
1) I think a proper ways to handle archery was to reduce the number of arrows since it reduce the survivability of HA, his dmg output and it’ applied to archery.
2) I could live with the speed nerf  of the horse but everyone should be nerfed with a speed nerf (agility whore too)
For the rest it make the class unplayable and no fun at all and again I can live with some adjustments but if you want a melee god only game, just remove the class or lower our upkeep and give us a x3 exp base minimum so atleast if our class  is weak we can get exp and make money.
Even if I can kill more players with my 2 handed  (and I suck as mele) I find it no interesting in term of gameplay. That really your choice: making a decent game for everyone or just stick with your mele /cav fan boy club but let us know.
Kojiro
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 03:15:51 am by kojiro34 »

Offline Voncrow

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 02:12:38 am »
0
You know they maximized damage of Horse Range to 15 damage right? A lot more than 10 or 20 percent. Also the biggest problem with horse archers they left, that they delay and are fucking huge trolls about it. I would much more prefer you revert them and just have all horses die whenever flags spawn, is that possible?

EDIT:
Tydeus: Horse Ranged damage penalty(20%) and damage cap(15 damage).

So both...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 02:20:24 am by Voncrow »
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Offline bigsean

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 02:52:18 am »
0
don't forget your slow ass horse still has the same upkeep
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Offline kojiro34

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 03:17:03 am »
-2
Yeah ty about the 15 dmg i forgot to mention it.

I can leave with hte slow ass horse since everybody on horse are slower even if i hate it. lol

Offline Jeade

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 05:31:59 am »
+2
I was really specialize at killing cav to help my team so it was really hard for them.

The balancers don't seem to be terribly concerned about teamwork or class counters.
Specific focus on melee survivability has been the thing for quite awhile, but this patch has really fucked archery. Especially horse archery.
I hate horse archers, and I really fucking hate you in NA1, Kojiro, but some of these changes are totally fucked.

Didn't realize you made this thread though, otherwise I'd have probably just chimed in here, but if you'd like to go voice your opinions or whatever in my thread, here's the link.
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Offline Soldier_of_God

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 07:28:24 am »
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I'll admit that this patch really killed horse archers, but truly i don't miss them. Perhaps though, maybe the penalties should be dialed back a bit.

Offline Xeen

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 09:43:44 am »
+2
I made a brand new bow today just so we could do extensive testing with Drakanis.  The class seems unplayably bad now, particularly at what I think the class is least gay and most useful at doing, killing other cavalry.  He shot one of our chargers like 5 times and it was only at 90% health.  I saw him shoot an agility build player many, many times to no avail on multiple occasions, as well. 

I actually think the slowdown was a fantastic stand-alone nerf and I would be totally fine if HA never did good damage to infantry again.  However, them being shitty at bringing down really good cav players who are otherwise pretty untouchable really hurts the game in my opinion. 

Offline kojiro34

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 08:00:55 pm »
0


Quote
For all the reasons stated in the past. HA(horse ranged) will henceforth remain, intentionally, the least effective class in this mod. There is very likely room for buffs from where they are now, but everyone needs to keep the previous statement in mind.
Tydius

OK, it's "almost" clear but HA was already 1 of the the least effective class (level wise / skill wise), I dont mind to not be a god mod, we want a ways to be effective with this playstyle. 

Offline Lichen

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 09:11:11 pm »
0
We cannot stack power draw if you didn’t knew, we need HA/HR so wtf… sorry  but I cannot put 8 power draw. It was never our dmg the problem.

5) Dmg capped to 15


You can still get 4 HA with 8 powerdraw. You just have to have lower weaponmaster or riding. Try that with yumi bow. So damage will probably be 15 on most hits with that.

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 09:24:41 pm »
+1
How to be effective with HA: don't play the class

Offline Dezilagel

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2014, 10:20:52 pm »
+2
Die HA
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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 12:45:29 am »
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Fammi un pompino!

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Offline kojiro34

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2014, 07:14:08 am »
+1
You can still get 4 HA with 8 powerdraw. You just have to have lower weaponmaster or riding. Try that with yumi bow. So damage will probably be 15 on most hits with that.

hmm you tried it ?
it mean around 70 weapon prof at 35....  and be a slow ass rider.... but yea i should be able to kill the medium and low armor in 4 or 5 shots.. Come on man....



Offline kojiro34

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2014, 07:16:58 am »
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I dont know whyt i cannot (lies) top the board as level 37 HA with 25 gen and i can top it as a polearm/2 handed level 32 first gen.   

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: The death of Horse archery
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2014, 07:35:21 am »
0
Because haters gunna hate


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Fammi un pompino!

I think I have ball cancer in my right nut :(
Good news everybody! It's not nut cancer :)
Bad news everybody, I got dumped :(