Nerf Agi and Make Ironflesh Useful

[Tydeus]

and more WM gives you more WPF than some IF which doesn't really help much imo

That depends 100% on how much armor you use, nothing else.

[Phew]

The IF change is welcome and definitely adds an interesting mechanic. However, I notice that when wearing medium armor, you don't see any wpf advantage from IF until you exceed 3-4 points in the skill. This is unfortunate, since most people are now lvl 37 and that level doesn't allow "complete" builds, so you end up with "leftover" points. However, IF isn't a great option for leftover points, since you don't get the wpf benefit unless you are nearly maxing it.

I wish the wpf benefit could be linear with IF skill, instead of loaded to the last few points as you max IF. This would encourage greater build variety, as the IF skill is now very "all or nothing". The strength component of the wpf penalty reduction formula is nearly insignificant; I'd rather see it be a simple linear function of IF.

[Jona]

The IF change is welcome and definitely adds an interesting mechanic. However, I notice that when wearing medium armor, you don't see any wpf advantage from IF until you exceed 3-4 points in the skill. This is unfortunate, since most people are now lvl 37 and that level doesn't allow "complete" builds, so you end up with "leftover" points. However, IF isn't a great option for leftover points, since you don't get the wpf benefit unless you are nearly maxing it.

I wish the wpf benefit could be linear with IF skill, instead of loaded to the last few points as you max IF. This would encourage greater build variety, as the IF skill is now very "all or nothing". The strength component of the wpf penalty reduction formula is nearly insignificant; I'd rather see it be a simple linear function of IF.

I think the minimum threshold was lowered from 10 to 6, and the threshold is now calculated by IF*2. Therefore having 3 IF changes nothing, since it is equal to 6, the automatic minimum. Also I agree with you about 37 not allowing "complete" builds and this kind of once again indirectly allows for IF to be the "leftover point dumpster." I used to have 6 IF, but now I only have 4 IF since I wanted to keep my 4 shield skill.

[Phew]

I think the minimum threshold was lowered from 10 to 6, and the threshold is now calculated by IF*2. Therefore having 3 IF changes nothing, since it is equal to 6, the automatic minimum. Also I agree with you about 37 not allowing "complete" builds and this kind of once again indirectly allows for IF to be the "leftover point dumpster." I used to have 6 IF, but now I only have 4 IF since I wanted to keep my 4 shield skill.

I might go back and forth between 18/25 with maxed skills (current) and 21/24 with 4 IF and 5 shield. I exchanged for that black/red Rus Scale for purely aesthetic reasons, which is really fat so I'm probably stuck on maxed IF builds. Hope siege gets populated again; siege is kind to fat shielders, unlike battle.

[Jona]

I might go back and forth between 18/25 with maxed skills (current) and 21/24 with 4 IF and 5 shield. I exchanged for that black/red Rus Scale for purely aesthetic reasons, which is really fat so I'm probably stuck on maxed IF builds. Hope siege gets populated again; siege is kind to fat shielders, unlike battle.

You might have wanted to wait until the new heraldic armors you've had your eyes on were added to use up your heirloom exchange. Unless you like the new rus scale better than even those, of course. Cuz they are on their way... just a little delayed.

If I were you, I would go 21-24 or 24-21 as a shielder, without a doubt. 6PS can barely cut it for me when using 1handers. I know that you like to max out your shield skill, however I never went past 5, and I am currently plenty happy with only 4.

[San]

Removing the min. 6 and strength factors would hurt hybrids and agi builds even more. No IF would mean that you can't wear armor without a penalty. Because of the exponential scale (that's needed for plate), medium armor would be like wearing plate for those that don't use IF. It's also easier to scale the IF function since strength works separately.

[Phew]

Removing the min. 6 and strength factors would hurt hybrids and agi builds even more. No IF would mean that you can't wear armor without a penalty. Because of the exponential scale (that's needed for plate), medium armor would be like wearing plate for those that don't use IF. It's also easier to scale the IF function since strength works separately.

Linearized about balanced builds/medium armor, the first 3-4 IF do nothing and the last 3-4 IF give you about ~4wpf each. I'm sure there is some way to make it so each IF pt gives about ~2wpf while not screwing hybrids and agi builds.

You might have wanted to wait until the new heraldic armors you've had your eyes on were added to use up your heirloom exchange. Unless you like the new rus scale better than even those, of course. Cuz they are on their way... just a little delayed.

If I were you, I would go 21-24 or 24-21 as a shielder, without a doubt. 6PS can barely cut it for me when using 1handers. I know that you like to max out your shield skill, however I never went past 5, and I am currently plenty happy with only 4.

I know, I'll probably still get the new heraldic mail anyway; I still got 5LPs sitting around. I never really notice any difference between 6-8PS with 4D 1h swords; it's still all about held head strikes if you want to actually hurt someone with those. I can always whip out my axe, which is 40c now! I don't play strat, so I plan to take advantage of the weekly respecs to try stuff out. I'd be fine with 5 shield skill if 4IF actually gave a wpf bonus, but I'd rather do more neutral nudge damage than just get 8HP.

[Taser]

You might have wanted to wait until the new heraldic armors you've had your eyes on were added to use up your heirloom exchange. Unless you like the new rus scale better than even those, of course. Cuz they are on their way... just a little delayed.

If I were you, I would go 21-24 or 24-21 as a shielder, without a doubt. 6PS can barely cut it for me when using 1handers. I know that you like to max out your shield skill, however I never went past 5, and I am currently plenty happy with only 4.

What's wrong with 6 PS for 1h?

Guess Jona just can't cut it.

[Ujin]

You might have wanted to wait until the new heraldic armors you've had your eyes on were added to use up your heirloom exchange.

Pardon me for interfering , what heraldic armors are you talking about ?

[Jona]

Pardon me for interfering , what heraldic armors are you talking about ?

I believe that these armors are going to be made heraldic, and maybe replace some of the current native heraldic armors:

Mail with Surcoat

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Plated Mail with Surcoat

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[Knitler]

if here is also allowed to speak about personal experience, I played long enough on 21/21 777 and I can say that  with medium or a bit heavier armor its rly pretty tanky, but when someone like Knitler hits you in the head removing  more then half hp and you do realize that next one will be the last -   u dont give shit about 1 or 2 or even 3 IF and thinking about 1 more in  shields or wm to have time to block it. on the other hand, playing an inf with 6 or 7 athletics, personally for me its  2 completely different games , with 7 im much more dangerous... which consequently allows me to be more survivable^^
therefore I support if's buff, especially expense of agi
(sry about my eng).

Always aim for the head - im 24/21 btw.

[San]

Linearized about balanced builds/medium armor, the first 3-4 IF do nothing and the last 3-4 IF give you about ~4wpf each. I'm sure there is some way to make it so each IF pt gives about ~2wpf while not screwing hybrids and agi builds.

Probably Str/3 + IF

[Phew]

Probably Str/3 + IF

Current is the greater of Str/3 or IF*2?

If so, I like Str/3 + IF a lot more. Would make the first 3-4 points in IF just as good as the last 3-4, and it would be a minimal change for both extreme agility and str builds.