Swedish election

[GRANDMOM]

Comparing Muslim immigrants to Finnish immigrants is retarded, there's literally nothing similar about the two. Finns came over to Sweden to work hard, that's the whole reason they came over, they were familiar with the culture, the line between Finnish/Swedish is almost non-existent in some parts of Finland, Finns are taught Swedish, Finns have a similar culture, Finland is right next to Sweden, Finns have a similar religion..

It just shows how little you understand the situation.

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I compared the reaction from our society to those Groups of immigrants and how those reactions were similar - not that the Groups were similar in any way.

Example:

*New Group comes to our country (it could be the smurfs for all I care, it has nothing to do with the point)
*The Group as a whole is given certain skills or identities or behaviourial patterns from people that need to label groups
*Fins for example were looked upon like this: "they all drink and have knifefights, robs old women and are alcoholics - they are scary and dangerous" (very simplified version)
*Former yogoslavians were labelled like this "Crime, mafia, rape, strange Culture, dangerous, stupid"

So no matter what the change is, or when it occurs - there will allways be a certain amount of people fearing change and the unknown - may it be immigrants or new Music, today we laugh at the people in the 60:s that viewed Fins the way they did - if you lived back then, perhaps you would be one of them Xant

[GRANDMOM]

This will be my last post here, its fun but it takes to much time to go over all of this

Yes, we can change the way we help immigrants once they come to sweden, we can get more efficient, we can work faster when deciding if they are to stay or not, we can be better at getting them into work so they can earn their way, we can do shit better in so many ways - thats the discussion we should be having, and that is the discussion that is happening among the other parties, whats not discussed is if we are to stop having immigrants or if we are to take in less people than we do. And 87% DIDNT vote for SD, which means cutting the immigrant policies arent the number one priority for more than 13 people out of a 100.

Thomek might be right about SD getting more votes next election, it wouldnt surprise me - its 4 years away. Alot can happen during that time, both in favour of SD and against.

But its my view that the amount of immigrants we are taking in right now, isnt gonna last forever - wars will end, the flood will dry out. And to me the earlier waves of immigrants we have had has added alot to our society over the years, so will this one.

Cheers

[Xant]

I compared the reaction from our society to those Groups of immigrants and how those reactions were similar - not that the Groups were similar in any way.

Example:

*New Group comes to our country (it could be the smurfs for all I care, it has nothing to do with the point)
*The Group as a whole is given certain skills or identities or behaviourial patterns from people that need to label groups
*Fins for example were looked upon like this: "they all drink and have knifefights, robs old women and are alcoholics - they are scary and dangerous" (very simplified version)
*Former yogoslavians were labelled like this "Crime, mafia, rape, strange Culture, dangerous, stupid"

So no matter what the change is, or when it occurs - there will allways be a certain amount of people fearing change and the unknown - may it be immigrants or new Music, today we laugh at the people in the 60:s that viewed Fins the way they did - if you lived back then, perhaps you would be one of them Xant

I know you were comparing reactions, and the comparison is extremely flawed because the groups are completely different. Finns didn't ghetto up and vastly over-represent themselves in Sweden's crime statistics, neither did most/any other groups you mention.

You're trying to downplay legit criticisms as "fear of the unknown" by pointing at the past where people overreacted.... but that doesn't mean things are fine right now, and there are statistics to support those criticisms, unlike before.

[GRANDMOM]

I know you were comparing reactions, and the comparison is extremely flawed because the groups are completely different. Finns didn't ghetto up and vastly over-represent themselves in Sweden's crime statistics, neither did most/any other groups you mention.

You're trying to downplay legit criticisms as "fear of the unknown" by pointing at the past where people overreacted.... but that doesn't mean things are fine right now, and there are statistics to support those criticisms, unlike before.

Oh you have statistics to prove your points? Amazing, cause the "other side" ofc hasnt got statistics to show to back their cause. This election has been pouring with statistics on all levels, from top politicians to the grunt fighting on facebook to the media and the shadow media.

Both sides disregards the other sides statistics as propaganda, both sides have dedicated statistic heroes.

The largest ever made economical study of immigrants in all europe says that sweden benefits economically from immigrants - and most other countries aswell, could get the link for it if you like, but you will disregard it as nonsense and call it propaganda.

Couldnt help myself

[Kafein]

SD had 20 seats in parliament before election, now they have 49.

Something ain't right in sweden, that's a fact. 

I'm not usually the one to scream Political Correctness!! But in Sweden it truly is a big problem.. What you have to do is to make it possible to be openly against immigration without being labeled a racist/chocolate chip cookie. Because they are NOT the same thing.

They are not the same thing, I agree with that. However I have yet to hear about an European anti-immigration party that isn't either openly xenophobic or very thinly disguised as not racist. Parties like SD are poisoning the issue because branding them as racists is perfectly legit while at the same time we need to have a serious debate about immigration, and that's the reason normal (i.e. no racist) people are voting for them. I'd even go as far as to say it's fine to vote for them as long as you are clever enough to not let them into an actual position of power. It's necessary to slap the traditional parties in the face when they are neglecting important issues. They are huge, conservative beasts which have a very hard time changing their ways, they need wake up calls. However if you seriously hope things would improve if the extremists were in power, you are an idiot.

It also seems to me that regardless of the issue, young voters are attracted to extremist, single-minded parties (like the Pirate Party). The problem is that it's impossible to be single-minded when you have power.

[Thomek]

In sweden there are no space for a moderate opinion, that's why you get extremists like SD in stead. That's the problem.

[Umbra]

Well, kinda hard to be moderate when the mere mention of lowering immigration gets you called a racist

[Gravoth_iii]

They are not the same thing, I agree with that. However I have yet to hear about an European anti-immigration party that isn't either openly xenophobic or very thinly disguised as not racist. Parties like SD are poisoning the issue because branding them as racists is perfectly legit while at the same time we need to have a serious debate about immigration, and that's the reason normal (i.e. no racist) people are voting for them. I'd even go as far as to say it's fine to vote for them as long as you are clever enough to not let them into an actual position of power. It's necessary to slap the traditional parties in the face when they are neglecting important issues. They are huge, conservative beasts which have a very hard time changing their ways, they need wake up calls. However if you seriously hope things would improve if the extremists were in power, you are an idiot.

It also seems to me that regardless of the issue, young voters are attracted to extremist, single-minded parties (like the Pirate Party). The problem is that it's impossible to be single-minded when you have power.

How are they racist?

[Butan]

This thread:

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[Leshma]

single-minded parties (like the Pirate Party).

Do you follow their recent work? Pirate is only in their name, that party is suggesting some very exciting changes to EU copyright laws: http://www.copyrightreform.eu/case-for-copyright-reform. Read it when you find time and please don't judge it before you educate yourself.

[BASNAK]

[Gravoth_iii]

Bunch of sad stories, people calling them racists then cuts out without letting them respond, or just clips of someone lying saying that SD wants to stop immigration completely and the not give a shit about those who are in the warzones. Oh and the super dramatic music playing in the backgroung. Disgusting but effective, this is why most people hate on the party without knowing jack shit about their politics.

Its unfortunate that some in the party are being racist, but it cant be helped, but the politics of SD still arent racist. It might attract racists because its the only party that wants to decrease immigration though.

And bringing up SD's background, well they used to be chocolate chip cookie, but other parties have dark pasts aswell. Socialdemocrats have a pretty racist background aswell.

[BASNAK]

Bunch of sad stories, people calling them racists then cuts out without letting them respond, or just clips of someone lying saying that SD wants to stop immigration completely and the not give a shit about those who are in the warzones. Oh and the super dramatic music playing in the backgroung. Disgusting but effective, this is why most people hate on the party without knowing jack shit about their politics.

Its unfortunate that some in the party are being racist, but it cant be helped, but the politics of SD still arent racist. It might attract racists because its the only party that wants to decrease immigration though.

I didn't link the video for the so called "inspirational speeches" or the dramatic music in the background. Just a reminder of who these people were some years ago. One of the most digusting things is how they're happily singing about the death of Olof Palme

[Gravoth_iii]

Edited in on previous post, but social democrats have a pretty dark background aswell, its not only SD. SD's is more recent though, but they were just chanting, and never had any control to change anything. Social democrats did though, and made some weird choices. Looking at backgrounds is silly, listen to what they have to say now instead.

[BASNAK]

Edited in on previous post, but social democrats have a pretty dark background aswell, its not only SD. SD's is more recent though, but they were just chanting, and never had any control to change anything. Social democrats did though, and made some weird choices. Looking at backgrounds is silly, listen to what they have to say now instead.

Yes they were involved in promoting race biology and force sterilization in like the 60's and 70's, and it should be discussed. But it isn't like Stefan Löfven and his current party comrades support or did support such policies. You don't hear about scandals of current Social democrats trying to revive or promote such policies anymore.

Scandals do happen in every party, but SD takes the price. Their leader was happily singing about the murder of Olof Palme, and their political representatives have again and again been found to post biggoted racist posts on the internet.

And I have listened to what they have to say and I do agree on that our current intergration policy isn't working for all immigrants, that racism towards Swedes should be taken more seriously, we should decrease immigration etc. But that's all they have to offer. I watched every single party leader debate before the election and Jimmy was fucking terrible in every subject except for immigration and foreign policy. It was hilarious when Jimmy completely ripped off what Jan Björklund said about coalplants from the previous debate to the Green Party, and just repeated it.

I'm just longing for the day a real party will deal with immigration so we can get rid of that shithole of a party.