Swedish election

[Oberyn]

I dont see how we can evade the fact that we are all pooling into the same big human race now that the majority of the population have global information and transport means.
The time where humans lived in isolated places in different corners of the world with very little communication with the exterior world is over.

That's so retardedly naive and ignorant I'm not sure where to start. Infrastructure and global transportation has caused "pooling" of different cultures and peoples WHERE, exactly? The only places where it's even remotely true is the US and Europe. It has nothing to do with the circumstances of global trade and prosperity and everything to do with deliberate immigration policies.
The rest of the world still runs alongs the same tribal identity factors that have existed since human civilization first emerged, and probably always will. So will Europe again eventually, one way or another.
The internet is largely segregated by language and culture, often outright such as in the Great Firewall of China. That's already almost half the population of the entire planet there. Heck, most of east Asia countries have no truck with the postmodernist NWO idiots who think they can change human nature with propaganda. Go tell a Korean, Japanese or Chinese the world is changing and their cultures are going to be amalgamated into The World-Wide Melting Pot and they'll laugh in your stupid, ignorant, naive self-hating gaijin face. That's not even getting into the other developping or developped countries the world over.

[BASNAK]

(click to show/hide)

As I've stated numerous times before, I'm born in perfectly harmonic multicultural community. First neighbor was muslim, no one denied him right to be one. There was a mosque less than 200 meters from my house. Only difference is that state was secular and it wasn't usual to see burkas and short pants everywhere. Also worth of note is that happened a bit after famous Islamic "revolution" and that kind of mindset didn't yet arrive to our happy little town (Islamic revolution is the same shit as fascism, check pictures from Afghanistan prior and after that revolution).

There were also catholic, orthodox churches in the same town and synagogue was also in the town. People of different religion and culture respected each other, were friends and lived peacefully. Nationalism was forbidden by the state! Only acceptable nationalism was love for the great state we were living in, but no one was forced to like it. Many still claimed they are Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, Jews and not Yugoslavs.

One special day that changed, asshole nationalist killers, thieves and murderers who were imprisoned were somehow on the loose and formed alliances. Soon they started killing their former neighbors based on the religion they practice.

Since then I don't believe a single word that comes out of nationalist and right wing supporters mouth. For me they are cancer of humanity, viollent assholes who aren't capable to live peacufly with other humans. For me every single nationalist is fascist.

It's too late for this shithole of a country I'm living in, but it's not too late for countries like Sweden. Do not let nationalist win, they will always vote and if you don't vote against their "Ideas" you are fucked. They are like soldiers, they easily recognize each other and even respect their "foes" which are basically the same shitlords as them but coming from different tribe.

Our grandfathers lost their lives fighting nationalist (fascist) ideas. Because of that their sons and daughters made sure to put fascist pricks where they belong, which is bellow 5% of votes. Now it seems that new generations forgot all that and as result we see far right movements strengthening. Don't let them take over, go and vote against their ideas and beliefs.

The issue in Sweden is that 7 out of 8 parties in the parliament wants to keep/increase immigration, and only one wants to decrease it. Many people voting for that party (SD) are doing it only because they want less immigration. It's the only option, and the other parties have forced the hands of the people. Voters don't want decreased immigration because they're racist, but because our current integration policy isn't working particularly well. I hope for the day other parties will dare to be more open about immigration policies, so there's more options than SD, which comes with Nationalism and weird policies all in one package if they form a government one day.

[Leshma]

Both Chinese and especially Japanese culture have been westernized. Japanese are actually leaders of westernization, their culture is what our will become in next decades. Main characteristic of western culture is progressive, hard working individual, and Japanese are the best example of that. Just because they aren't willing to speak English at every occasion, doesn't mean they aren't the perfect example of a westerner.

[Oberyn]

Their immigration policies have nothing to do with their work ethic, or "westernization" or lack thereof. If there's one western thing they don't have much truck with it's the collective identity suicidal frenzy so many western countries are enamored of and the subsequent immigration policies that come with it. It's incredibly hard to become a japanese citizen and you must assimilate at a high level before it is even considered, culturally and economically. And even then the perceived "taint" of korean or chinese heritage can still be a burden, given the animosity between all three of those countries historically. East Asia still has WW2 very much on it's mind on the national levels, unlike euro countries for whom it is almost distant history politically.
And chinese are far from "westernized". Not sure how you can put japanese and chinese on the same level for that subject. South Korea is a much better pick.

[Leshma]

The issue in Sweden is that 7 out of 8 parties in the parliament wants to keep/increase immigration, and only one wants to decrease it. Many people voting for that party (SD) are doing it only because they want less immigration. It's the only option, and the other parties have forced the hands of the people. Voters don't want decreased immigration because they're racist, but because our current integration policy isn't working particularly well. I hope for the day other parties will dare to be more open about immigration policies, so there's more options than SD, which comes with Nationalism and weird policies all in one package if they form a government one day.

Swedes are smart, hard working people. You can't persuade me that immigration is the main issue. Something else lies beneath it. What is the problem with so many people arriving in such short period of time? Your infrastructure can't support it. Real problem is why you can't support more than 10 million people living in your country?

Is it too much welfare? If that's the case, then cut the welfare and use that money to create jobs so that people can work and give back to the country. Welfare isn't something you should pride yourselves in, it's a temporary way of dealing with problems. All people should work, that's the long term goal.

Sweden is northern country and that's the reason why it is underpopulated. But we live in different, modern times where cold climate isn't an issue as it was before. Me and Oberyn mentioned Japanese, their island is smaller and worse place to live compared to Swedish territory. And yet they have no troubles supporting 12 times as much souls who undeniably live in a country with higher standard and more developed than Sweden.

Immigration isn't an issue, it is an excuse to cover up for real, solvable problems that are avoided indefinitely.

[Oberyn]

Map of arable land. Sweden is marginal farming territory. It's no mystery why Sweden is sparsely populated while Japan is densely. That's a factor that stretches a long way back. If Sweden was as densely populated as Japan can you imagine the infrastructure that needs to be built? The amount of food imported? The number of jobs to provide? Where does the money come from?
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Bittersteel]

Swedes are smart, hard working people. You can't persuade me that immigration is the main issue. Something else lies beneath it. What is the problem with so many people arriving in such short period of time? Your infrastructure can't support it. Real problem is why you can't support more than 10 million people living in your country?

Is it too much welfare? If that's the case, then cut the welfare and use that money to create jobs so that people can work and give back to the country. Welfare isn't something you should pride yourselves in, it's a temporary way of dealing with problems. All people should work, that's the long term goal.

Sweden is northern country and that's the reason why it is underpopulated. But we live in different, modern times where cold climate isn't an issue as it was before. Me and Oberyn mentioned Japanese, their island is smaller and worse place to live compared to Swedish territory. And yet they have no troubles supporting 12 times as much souls who undeniably live in a country with higher standard and more developed than Sweden.

Immigration isn't an issue, it is an excuse to cover up for real, solvable problems that are avoided indefinitely.

Like Oberyn said, it would have to be built up upon slow and steady which the country is doing.

Also, I might have misread that but did you say that they have no problem supporting a bigger population when they have higher standard and that the country is more developed? Well then...

[LordBerenger]

Yes I understand you have no attachment whatsoever to any sort of communal tribal identity. You're too enlightened to have something as boorish and primitive as that. Don't worry, immigrants are not so shy about it. Keep glorifying their sense of cultural identity and obliterating your own, what could go wrong. Perfect assimilation, lol.

Lol'd hard. Even before its current situation France hasn't had an incredible and great history like certain other countries (England, China, Egypt, Japan, Germany etc..).

And besides that. Playing the ''poor oppressed easily offended white male who whines about losing his countries identity'' card is just stupid.
Regardless whether you wanna live how people lived 2000+ years ago or evolve is up to you.


Personally i'd embrace a New World Order with no borders, restrictions or nationalistic bs. Respect the history and learn from it. Don't however use outdated ways of living unless necessary.

[GRANDMOM]

Yes I understand you have no attachment whatsoever to any sort of communal tribal identity. You're too enlightened to have something as boorish and primitive as that. Don't worry, immigrants are not so shy about it. Keep glorifying their sense of cultural identity and obliterating your own, what could go wrong. Perfect assimilation, lol.

Wow, was it to complicated to understand?

I do have some traditions I like, some of them are the same as those of the nationalistic party - some arent. So, I do have attachment to the community, of my own chosing - not by their standards. I am not the one telling others what Swedish values and traditions are about. You chose to bend my words, make em into something they are not - if you do it because you are stupid or because you are out of arguments - I dont know and frankly I dont care

I dont chose to glorifying any culture, keep your culture and stop bugging me or others with it - same goes with religion, keep your religion, let others keep theirs - but stop bugging others with the crap you like and try to shov it down other peoples throats.



 

[Oberyn]

Personally i'd embrace a New World Order with no borders, restrictions or nationalistic bs.

I'm sure that will happen if you just wish hard enough. I eagerly await the Cultural Singularity.
It's like none of you dumb fuckers ever stepped foot outside the first world.

[Leshma]

Map of arable land. Sweden is marginal farming territory. It's no mystery why Sweden is sparsely populated while Japan is densely. That's a factor that stretches a long way back. If Sweden was as densely populated as Japan can you imagine the infrastructure that needs to be built? The amount of food imported? The number of jobs to provide? Where does the money come from?
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Used Japan as an example. At this rate Sweden won't be populated as Japan in next 10 years, even if number of immigrants double every year (which won't happen, it will actually go down because far right getting votes...)

As for lack of farming land, as a person born in Bosnia which seems to have lots of it, I have no issue voting to give right to Swedes to run the country. That's because I don't give a fuck about tribal bullshit, all I care is giving people better life and putting capable foreigner in charge who has no agenda to enslave you is better than giving same role to domestic scoundrel.

[Kafein]

Yes I understand you have no attachment whatsoever to any sort of communal tribal identity. You're too enlightened to have something as boorish and primitive as that. Don't worry, immigrants are not so shy about it. Keep glorifying their sense of cultural identity and obliterating your own, what could go wrong. Perfect assimilation, lol.

You don't seem to understand that some people actually respect cultural identities for what they are, not glorifying the immigrants nor the locals. It's the idea of a secular state, applied to culture instead of religion. Secular states work relatively well, so I don't see why culturally-agnostic states can't. Essentially it's this:

I dont chose to glorifying any culture, keep your culture and stop bugging me or others with it - same goes with religion, keep your religion, let others keep theirs - but stop bugging others with the crap you like and try to shov it down other peoples throats.

Culture is a matter of personal freedom.

While I wholeheartedly agree that positive discrimination is bullshit and should never ever be used, most accusations from nationalist parties involving some kind of perceived "immigrant advantage" are straight fairy tales.

[GRANDMOM]

Swedes are smart, hard working people. You can't persuade me that immigration is the main issue. Something else lies beneath it. What is the problem with so many people arriving in such short period of time?

Immigration isn't an issue, it is an excuse to cover up for real, solvable problems that are avoided indefinitely.

The way I see it, we could start by comparing the other large quantities of people coming to sweden and how they were different.

1. We had an overflow with jobs in 60-70:s - all got a job more or less
2. In the 90:s we had more jobs than we do now - a huge majority got jobs
3. Now we have a higher unemployment rate, the people coming to our country dont get a job as fast as before

Work is a large factor ofc

The Swedish society right now has a larger group that isnt saticfied, there isnt enough work, the healthcare is worse than before, senior citizens has higher taxrates than normal workers, the socialsecurity has gone down alot from how it was before in many fields. When u lose your jobs our socialsecurity is worse than before. Our schools are performing horrible result compared to the rest of the world.

So here comes SD with the simple solution - guess what it is - immigration

Then again, we know that the amount of senior citizens in Sweden will increase alot over the next 20 years, it has already started, people live longer, and stay healthier - we will need more people to work to be able to keep the society we have. New citizens will also add to consumtion, and generate new jobs - and generate more taxmoney.

Over the last 8 years, 350k more people in Sweden has gotten a job - 200k of them are jobs that has gone to people that SD dont want here. We are moving forward and we need to, while the more restricted countries around us have a deacrease in work - Denmark, Norway and Finland

[GRANDMOM]

Their immigration policies have nothing to do with their work ethic, or "westernization" or lack thereof. If there's one western thing they don't have much truck with it's the collective identity suicidal frenzy so many western countries are enamored of and the subsequent immigration policies that come with it. It's incredibly hard to become a japanese citizen and you must assimilate at a high level before it is even considered, culturally and economically. And even then the perceived "taint" of korean or chinese heritage can still be a burden, given the animosity between all three of those countries historically. East Asia still has WW2 very much on it's mind on the national levels, unlike euro countries for whom it is almost distant history politically.
And chinese are far from "westernized". Not sure how you can put japanese and chinese on the same level for that subject. South Korea is a much better pick.

You are blabbering like Im guessing an Englishman did when talking about Scottish people 300 years ago, or how they viewed people from India. Or how my home village talked about the next village 5 kilometers away 150 years ago. "Those are like this" and "Well we all know that people from Wales are like that - that will never change". The world is allways changing, the borders are not as important anymore and will be even less in the future, why - cause that is the nature of our development.

From the stoneage you considered your tribe to be your "nation", later on it became a village and it was your "nation", then you traded with other villages and migrated to them or started to accept them - a small "nation" or fiefdom was created (but we all know how the people in the next fiefdom are - they will never change". Then a man with a larger army came along, or some new religion and you became part of that "nation", wars religion and trade made the world into what it is today.

Swedes dont fight the danes anymore, English arent fighting the french and so on. The world moves on, and most differencies between all people will be gone - in time. In some areas of the world this has gone longer than in others - but it will happen

[Leshma]

I have voting right for over 10 years. My country is in deep shit. I believe that is because last 10 years I didn't have a single proper choice to vote for. Proper choice is the party that has clear and doable plan how to increase number of jobs and decrease unemployment. Sadly, not a single party was like that. Just bunch of lies and fake promises that have no ground in reality.

Don't tell me you haven't got a single proper choice to vote for? That you came to point where immigration is the only subject to discuss? To a point where no one has clear program how to push country forward? If that's the case, then you're fucked in the long run.