Author Topic: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri  (Read 10504 times)

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Offline Tagora

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #135 on: August 20, 2014, 02:52:04 pm »
+1
Well off European is right!

For me it's more wishful thinking than believing or trusting any of the sources or giving a shit about the politics or racial background. Face it, everyone secretly loves hearing about idiots in less developed countries who cant regulate firearms shooting each other on the streets, it makes people feel better about their own country. I'd be disappointed if none of the reports are true, but i suspect i'd get over it.

Well, it's not the guns at all really.  Guns for poor and disenfranchised Americans is nothing new, eg shays rebellion.  And if you read about it, it wasn't that bad, the farmers were able to stall the courts and free some debtors.  The chaos that is portrayed in the media today didn't exist back then.  The main issue then was that bankers were taking over the legislature and instituting laws that favored the upper class much similar to the situation that's going on today (albeit then they were less hasty because there was more to lose).  I think that there was a certain naivety throughout US revolutionary history.  It was a completely new country without an identity comparable to European nations.  We identified not as US citizens but as Virginians, Pennsylvanians, and so on.  That's changed since then.  We don't have that naivety anymore because we have the US Federal Government ruling over us more than any locally governing legislature does which wasn't the case back then.  We're talking about this massive institution that ever since WWII has multiplied in size and military strength by an unfathomable factor.  President Eisenhower warned us of the ongoing US military industrial complex and that was over 50 years ago.  50 years of heavy sustained growth in our military organizations.  We don't march in the streets armed like our predecessors did because we're extremely afraid of what would happen.  I guarantee you that the legislators wouldn't behave the way they did 228 years ago.

I actually laughed at (but wasn't surprised to see) all the middle-class sentimentality going on here.  The way that we view Gandhi in relation to emancipatory politics isn't the way the American underclass does.  They don't care about Gandhi.  Since they can't march on the courts or march on the banks they'll do the only (semi-)comparable thing they can do which is steal a pair of tennis shoes.  That's petty and I bet you're thinking that's unfair of me to make such a preposterous comparison but try to look at with the past in perspective; we can't bear arms and march on government.  That's out of the question and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.  So how does a working-class citizen of relatively narrow education go about a similar change?  In my opinion, they're going to react with petty crime and steal tennis shoes and other consumer items that they've been brainwashed into thinking are valuable.  It's certainly not the same as having the debt forgiven but since that's pretty much out of the question with today's politics there isn't much to do.  So I understand them but I won't agree with them.  I'm more of the sheltered & white & middle-class mind and think we should all smoke some weed and chill out in Central Park.  hue

Whenever civil unrest of this kind flares up, whether it's Los Angeles riots, the Chicago riots, or the Boston Massacre (just gonna throw this in there to look cool), the media are always focused in on a singular event.  It would be entirely idiotic to presume that unrest is triggered by one individual in one instance of injustice (whether or not any injustice was being done).  It's much more broad and complex.  It's the result of a system of neglect and abuse designed to strip away the rights and privileges of the lowest stratum of our society.  But then again, the majority of us are working people who don't have time to read into it more than that and the truth is (this is what disgusts us when we see the pictures): we're fucking terrified of ending up like the rioters ourselves.

tl;dr
The civil unrest in Ferguson, MO isn't shocking or new to America.  We can't protest against the legislature like we used to.  Now we steal tennis shoes.  Meanwhile, (old as fuk) "rich people paying rich people to tell the middle class people to blame poor people".  Don't read into the news and read moar history bookz.  Also, gandhi.

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Offline Butan

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #136 on: August 20, 2014, 03:03:00 pm »
+3
Still. 90% in this thread are basement dwelling, most likely well off Europeans sitting comfortably at home spreading their tinfoil hat conspiracies and giving their thoughts on race and politics like it matters and that don't even live on the same continent (NOH8).

The internet was invented to communicate with people which arent living on the same continent.
Learn something everyday.

Offline Tagora

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #137 on: August 20, 2014, 03:34:07 pm »
0
I kind of meant in a different way but yeah.  heskey make me love pls
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Offline Xant

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #138 on: August 20, 2014, 03:38:52 pm »
+3
That's right my country isn't affected, not even a little, and neither am i :DDD but by all means, the cops and the guns and everything to do with America is functioning juuuuuuuust fine. Keep doing what you're doing, reading the news is better popcorn material than even this thread.
Your retardation rears its ugly head again. Being ignorant, you're unaware of all the key differences between the US and European countries. But hey, we're gonna see how non-violently the EU is going to deal with all the ghettos and poor, uneducated gangbangers soon enough -- we've already gotten some good sneak peeks with several riots.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #139 on: August 20, 2014, 05:37:52 pm »
+2
No, of course not. Cops receive self-defense training to control unarmed aggressors. He should have used that, not his gun.
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Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #140 on: August 20, 2014, 05:52:05 pm »
+3
No, of course not. Cops receive self-defense training to control unarmed aggressors. He should have used that, not his gun.

yes and part of that training is when someone is attempting to disarm you, they intend to shoot you with your own weapon, so you do not let them, by stopping them before they take it.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #141 on: August 20, 2014, 06:13:51 pm »
0
yes and part of that training is when someone is attempting to disarm you, they intend to shoot you with your own weapon, so you do not let them, by stopping them before they take it.

In that case you might as well consider that people that look at you funny are trying to kill you with your own weapon and shoot them. How can you tell they are intending to shoot you with your own weapon? Was the guy that got shot even trying to disarm the cop?

Suppose the killer wasn't a cop, and argue self-defense. That would make a tough case. The cop's main job seems to be "protect your own life with no regard for the lives of others".

Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #142 on: August 20, 2014, 06:23:29 pm »
0
In that case you might as well consider that people that look at you funny are trying to kill you with your own weapon and shoot them. How can you tell they are intending to shoot you with your own weapon? Was the guy that got shot even trying to disarm the cop?

Suppose the killer wasn't a cop, and argue self-defense. That would make a tough case. The cop's main job seems to be "protect your own life with no regard for the lives of others".

Kafein if you would see past your own pro life hippy fucking views.

not a very good argument honestly, i have no idea what happened to the officer, but from the hospital report, and his report is seems he was attacked, and severely injured.  Protecting ones own life is top priority, so i dont see how you really have any argument whatsoever, the guy attacked him, could have possibly put him unconscious and killed him.  But the officer never let it get to that point, congrats to him, made a decision, and is still alive.

wasnt a cop, self defense, well..........Treyvon Martin case ended up pretty well didnt it, self defense won the day in that didnt it.........yep thought so, try again.

Offline Xant

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #143 on: August 20, 2014, 06:25:59 pm »
+1
No, of course not. Cops receive self-defense training to control unarmed aggressors. He should have used that, not his gun.
So you're saying you have no idea how fighting works in real life. "Self-defense training" cops receive is incredibly limited and not really very useful at all. It does not make them supermen. It doesn't mean they can just wave their hand and the mere CITIZEN opposing them flies to the ground, dazed but unharmed, completely stunned by these Secret Police Hand-to-Hand Moves.

It's a nice fantasy, but not how it works. Cops aren't required to be master martial artists. The guy who attacked the cop was 6'4 and something like 300 lbs. That he was unarmed is completely beside the point. Pistols don't give their owners super powers either, and just because you're "armed" (have a pistol in your holster) doesn't mean someone who's "unarmed" is suddenly no threat at all, even if you're not using your pistol.
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Offline Chosen1

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #144 on: August 20, 2014, 06:29:27 pm »
-2
In that case you might as well consider that people that look at you funny are trying to kill you with your own weapon and shoot them. How can you tell they are intending to shoot you with your own weapon? Was the guy that got shot even trying to disarm the cop?

Suppose the killer wasn't a cop, and argue self-defense. That would make a tough case. The cop's main job seems to be "protect your own life with no regard for the lives of others".

I swear to god you are the most retarded poster on this entire forum.
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #145 on: August 20, 2014, 06:32:51 pm »
+1
Suppose the killer wasn't a cop, and argue self-defense. That would make a tough case. The cop's main job seems to be "protect your own life with no regard for the lives of others".

The dude was a giant and fracuted the cops skull. If thats not a solid self-defence case I dont know what is. Generally im not into anyone shooting anybody dead, but in this case it seems quite justified. But the only thing I dont get is dont US cops have tasers or maze? Shouldnt one go for those before reaching for the actual firearm?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 06:37:11 pm by Tibe »

Offline Butan

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #146 on: August 20, 2014, 07:04:13 pm »
+1
But the only thing I dont get is dont US cops have tasers or maze? Shouldnt one go for those before reaching for the actual firearm?

All cops arent equiped with non lethal weapons such as tasers, and those that are dont carry it everywhere, and those that does dont always use them when its not pertinent to the situation.

It could be interesting to know what was the gear available to the police officer to know what was his choices.

Offline Xant

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #147 on: August 20, 2014, 07:07:28 pm »
+1
The dude was a giant and fracuted the cops skull. If thats not a solid self-defence case I dont know what is. Generally im not into anyone shooting anybody dead, but in this case it seems quite justified. But the only thing I dont get is dont US cops have tasers or maze? Shouldnt one go for those before reaching for the actual firearm?
Tasers and Mace are not magic bullets either, and generally very ineffective against someone who's being aggressive. If someone is already on your skin, you're probably just going to piss him off more by trying to spray him, provided you'll even hit.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #148 on: August 20, 2014, 08:55:09 pm »
+1
I swear to god you are the most retarded poster on this entire forum.

In fact I'd bet I'm the most intelligent poster on this entire forum. There are around 25000 members so the actual probability of that is close to .5 if we assume the population of forum members is IID with respect to world population.

Protecting ones own life is top priority

It's not a clear cut issue. In general it seems the average cop in the US is under immense pressure due to real or perceived threats to his life because he is a cop. This changes his behavior towards other people to an absurd degree.

So you're saying you have no idea how fighting works in real life. "Self-defense training" cops receive is incredibly limited and not really very useful at all. It does not make them supermen. It doesn't mean they can just wave their hand and the mere CITIZEN opposing them flies to the ground, dazed but unharmed, completely stunned by these Secret Police Hand-to-Hand Moves.

It's a nice fantasy, but not how it works. Cops aren't required to be master martial artists. The guy who attacked the cop was 6'4 and something like 300 lbs. That he was unarmed is completely beside the point. Pistols don't give their owners super powers either, and just because you're "armed" (have a pistol in your holster) doesn't mean someone who's "unarmed" is suddenly no threat at all, even if you're not using your pistol.

The dude was a giant and fracuted the cops skull. If thats not a solid self-defence case I dont know what is. Generally im not into anyone shooting anybody dead, but in this case it seems quite justified. But the only thing I dont get is dont US cops have tasers or maze? Shouldnt one go for those before reaching for the actual firearm?

Those two are arguments I can accept.


Offline Materia

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Re: Shooting and protests in Ferguson, Missouri
« Reply #149 on: August 20, 2014, 09:46:13 pm »
-3
friend = problem.

A bullet, or 6 thats how to deal with the problems. Give that cop an award, and encourage others to do it.
+100% for being "racist retard". You rather be safe racist in your country, than dead French bundle of sticks under the truck wheels, blown to pieces by a bomb, or shot in your own country, by so called "refugees". Lewak logic. Youll all die, sooner or later :). Enemy of my enemy, is my friend. Muslims will deal with you, go use the power of crayons do defend yourself.