Throwing needs to be fixed. Maintenance & movement needs work.

[SantostheLion]

I tried to build a heavily armored warrior which could throw javelins as a main and melee as a secondary. After many a miserable failed hours of gameplay I realized that my accuracy was horrendous. I knew that being in heavy armor would hurt my throwing capabilities but I did not think that it would hurt to that extent. So I tried a loadout with moderate armor but it's still a fail!. The skill part of it I have down because Ive gotten some insanely long archer hits with the jav, or a speeding cav rider in the back. Ok so all in all I've realized that it's not a good skill to specialize in. I'll tell you why, for one why would anyone spend 100 or 120 points in a skill where your ammo is so limited and having such a short range? You throw a few and its over, melee time. The skill has almost no value after the 30 seconds of skirmish mode is over. Short range? makes perfect sense but why the atrocious penalty to accuracy when using such a short range weapon? I've thrown javs at archers standing still 15 feet away and they miss!! Then when you get spotted by a knight in full armor with megaathletics charging you with the speed of a monty python movie character, it's pointless to throw more than one jav unless you want to get skewered. So what are you left with? A freakload of archers because they can have 30 to 60 shots with a quick resupply from a nearby corpse and shoot at everybody all day long. That archer I hit with a really skillful throw? well he survives the hit, shoots faster than I do and manages to kill me in one shot or take 90% of my health with a body shot! seriously how is that balanced??  So you get the cookiecutter archer or the cookie cutter heavy knight with the same 4 skills. If you have any suggestions I'll take them but there's no point at all in wasting the skill points in throw skill if you want to be a heavy or medium heavy but I assure you the archer will outshine in every way. I then checked the damage calculator and to my surprise  The heavy medium to heavy armored archer/crossbowman does more damage with a bow, has WAY more range, and at least 3 times the ammo. I don't really understand the huge damage penalty mainly. I suggest a much lower power throw penalty and armor weight penalty to WPF. It doesn't make sense that a long range (safe range) bow shot will be just as accurate and do more damage than a close range axe throw.
  Movement. Ok so the speed athletics grants seem a little high. Maybe not so much the forward movement but the sidestep/ direction change. In other words a knight could be running towards you and sidestep superfast and still run forward while hardly missing a beat. It looks like they are having a seizure while running toward you! I understand that it slows your movement speed a bit but the side to side movement speed is unaffected. Sidesteps should slow you down otherwise you have unrealistically agile knights in full armor face hugging you and running around you in circles while spam attacking you.
  Maintenance. Ok so I farmed a long time to build my plate armored peltast but guess what? I fell into debt because the cost was ridiculous! yes I try and offset my lack of melee skill or my preference for a non cookiecutter build by farming and gearing up. But wow! If you want to fight in plate then you better have invested the hours to learn how to be great at melee or archery because only the veterans can keep the gold rolling in against the noobs to run with supergear. Seriously are you trying to scare away the new players? This forces one to play the ultra specialized melee fighter or the Super archer with mega athletics/1-hand circle spam attack of death. If you want to have fun It'll cost you! Then again there's the hit and run tactic of Cavalry units that you can rely on for easy kills and quick cash. Put an athletics speed cap on heavy armor and be done with it. Seriously I pay enough bills at home, I don't jump on a game I enjoy but suck at to be stripped of hard earned gear just because I'm an easy kill. Love the idea of the mod, and love the game and for the most part flippin excellent job and much appreciated for all the work put in.

[PsychoTwins]

TL DR

Im not sorry, that is a huge shitty paragraph blob.

[Tanken]

Holy shit. Break up the text if you want me to take this seriously.

[SantostheLion]

Thanks king. Grammar aside the point's been made. As for you other jokers, sarcasm and insult is the retort of a weak mind. Contribute something useful or go troll somewhere else.

[Grumbs]

There are tradeoffs to most things. Not saying its all well balanced (archers are too strong), but you don't do yourself any favours by using all that gear. You complain about moving slowly, but you're using heavy armour and each stack of your ammo is like 4 weight each. Now add that you are trying to kill people at short range so archers will kite you and you can't kite melee. You might throw a few (and do good damage) but then you will die as you say you're bad at melee and too slow to run away.

What level and build have you got btw? You should probably look in beginner area for tips on a thrower build. I imagine you want medium/light armour really, some decent athletics and just enough PT to use your ammo. You either build like a normal melee guy but with a few weapons to throw or you go pure thrower and can kite. I don't know why you think you should be able to do both efficiently, thats not really fair on other players is it? Why should you have heavy armour, throw stuff at people and run fast?

Archers are a problem for every class, but good luck getting them balanced. Doesn't mean throwing needs to be buffed though

[bavvoz]

Even the hated archers cant get away with heavy armour and being able to kite. Funny though, i have seen a few troll archers in gothic before xD never seen a kuyak-hero archer

What have u done? Now u have unleashed a new era of kuyak hero archers, unstoppable in its horrible fashion

[SantostheLion]

Grumbs thanks for the thoughts. I was trying to sacrifice Strength and melee capabilities as a trade off to wearing heavy armor and good throwing. right now at Lv 28 I have a 100 in polearms and 120 in throwing. 18 in agility and 15 Strength Putting anything in power throw lowers my wps, but you cant use stronger thrown weapons without it. So even going with PW 3 with javelins lowers my throwing significantly. My aim recticle is massive and the damage is minimal, nevermind the low ammo count and range. I used the damage calculator provided in the beginner's forum to see an archer with the same armor with a PD bow of 3 and the damage was greater. Try making a decent heavy thrower and you will come up massively gimped. At least with an archer I can fire all day with the amount of ammo at hand. BTW in the last few games i was in there was a knight in plate riding a heavy warhorse with a lance and heavy crossbow and topping the charts.

[Molly]

As Meow (RIP) once told me "Throwing is not supposed to kill people." and I think this still counts.
Throwing has always been the step-kid in the corner that everyone smiled at but nobody really cared about. I don't expect to change... ever...

Even the hated archers cant get away with heavy armour and being able to kite. Funny though, i have seen a few troll archers in gothic before xD never seen a kuyak-hero archer

Shanks. 2h hero with 1PD bow. crpg has seen everything. There is no combination left that hasn't been tried by someone.

[//saxon]

oh wow my eyes after i clicked on this thread, feel sorry for anyone with dyslexia

[Gravoth_iii]

Throwing is fine, the accuracy is decent and the damage is great at destroying infantry without shields. Being a pure thrower is probably the best way to go though, or atleast spread the wpf with only 100 or so in the melee weapon. It should never become too strong of a class, then every infantry would hybrid into throwing and it would become hell.

[San]

I definitely recommend 150 throwing wpf minimum before splitting. Ranged classes receive a higher penalty from armor, so 120wpf + armor and you'll be experiencing pretty crappy accuracy/damage. Try a pure build or lower the melee wpf to ~50-60 and you'll see a large difference.

It's hard to be a hero with throwing, but you can secure a good 3-4 kills per round and can dominate close quarters with other throwers and melee working together.

[Tzar]

There is no reason to go full thrower, cause its shit, you can go in an contribute for 30 sec, then its gg.....

If you try a hybrid build you get fucked over by the wpf not being divided with the rest of the melee wpf. And your forced to play like an archer with only 6 bodkins, and a crap bow with shit arccuracy and missile speed...

But nonetheless im having fun with my STF thrower, thx to the ammo buff to throwing lances, its somewhat playable.

Like i allways said, throwers just need a bit of ammo buff across the board.

[SugarHoe]

Throwing is pretty powerful as it is, the WPF loss makes it so you cant just wear full plate all the time and still hit stuff easily. Everything in this game takes lots of practice, eventually you should get used to medium/med heavy throwing. Just because you hit a few archers from long ways and few cav in the back doesnt mean that youre MLG PRO QUIKSCOpREKTMLGmy old friendOT.

Upkeep isnt that bad at all you just have to help your team be pro and get constant valor. I have around like normally 3-4 k upkeep and i still make money from the team carrying me, or getting valor

[JackieChan]

There is no reason to go full thrower, cause its shit, you can go in an contribute for 30 sec, then its gg.....

If you try a hybrid build you get fucked over by the wpf not being divided with the rest of the melee wpf. And your forced to play like an archer with only 6 bodkins, and a crap bow with shit arccuracy and missile speed...

Hybrid best build

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[Rico]

Hybrid mechanics are imbalanced.

Playable without high level requirement:

1h/hoplite: flexibility, wpf
1h/2h/pole: flexibilty, wpf
1h/crossbow, 2h/crossbow or polearm/crossbow: ranged weapon and melee, light armor or wpf penalty
melee cav: horse, -2 levels compared to dedicated build (riding skill)
ranged cav: bump damage, survivability, -2 levels compared to dedicated build (riding skill)

Really weak unless high level:

thrower/melee: gets throwing weapon and melee, loses 2 levels from PT, has low range so melee is a must and heavy armor a desideratum (accuracy penalty...)
archer/melee: gets bow and melee loses 2 levels from PD, carries 14 weight arrows (~6 AGI + 2 Athl lost)

However, most archers are dedicated archers because dedicated archery is playable. Throwers are usually hybrids because playing pure throwing without melee is barely viable since range and ammo are low, and it looks pretty ridiculous when some berserk axe thrower glances on medium armor. So I support you, OP: Even though throwing got some buffs lately and throwing lances became pretty nice, it is still not as strong as other classes.