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Author Topic: Do we need a new item manager?  (Read 2727 times)

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Offline Senni__Ti

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2014, 06:34:07 pm »
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well, if one person alone could not do it, why not have a GROUP of people do it? an item management team? surely with 4 or 5 people something could be done, and with all the interested parties who do not have the time, this is a chance for them to be a part of it without having to do too much work in one sitting.

I'd be up for a team effort.

Well, if nobody knows how to be an item manager, I would like to volunteer, though all I'd know how to do is add items and stats. I can modify models, but don't expect me to be able to do anything with textures

If nobody else knows how to add items to cRPG, then I can serve as a substitute until we find an actual item manager

Hurrah a volunteer!

Offline WITCHCRAFT

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2014, 04:43:19 am »
+1
I think that if ready-to-use items are posted in the suggestion forum and they fail the approval vote (or require the creator's approval for use in crpg), then an item manager or dev or someone relevant should post that they will not be added, and why. Then close the thread. There's stuff that's been floating around in suggestions for a year. They get bumped over and over with no acknowledgement by anyone that they have even been considered.
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Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2014, 04:52:01 am »
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i am not the item manager that this community needs, but i AM the item manager it deserves

Offline LordLargos

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2014, 06:42:47 am »
+5
i am not the item manager that this community needs, but i AM the item manager it deserves
Are we really that bad?
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Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2014, 05:13:29 pm »
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Offline Soldier_of_God

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2014, 06:44:07 pm »
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As the Acting Item Manager (Read: Stats-Bitch), I should probably straighten a few misconceptions out, as well as offer what information I can about the position.
At the moment, your statement would certainly seem to have some truth to it.

We use a Google Docs Spreadsheets to add stats, we don't edit module_items manually. When chadz compiles for a patch, the module_items.py file is generated using the spreadsheet, so the issue isn't that we need someone do to simple stuff like creating item stats (Item Balancers create the stats anyway, all an Item Manager does is put them into the sheet.) It's that any "Item Manager" will have to have an eye for quality. There are a lot of restrictions that items have to pass through before getting accepted, so it turns out to be quite a tedious task. If you as Item Manager create/edit models/textures, it still has to pass through the normal voting procedure to be able to get implemented. While It's not a rigorous test or anything, it does mean you as the author, don't get the final say.

Really, just about anyone could suffice, but here's a list of things that any candidate will be confronted with or will need to know (might also be worth noting that it would seem, understandably, that chadz highly values initiative). Without the knowledge of how the modeling and texturing process works, so you can fix other people's models/textures, as well as have the willingness to do so, any Item Manger is going to be rather hard pressed to find acceptable OSPs. You must have the author's approval (many people, surprisingly, don't understand this), and you have to scrutinize each OSP filtering out all the items that don't really fall within the timeline or style that cRPG has (Nothing fantasy for example, it shouldn't stick out like a sore thumb), as well as ensuring the items have an appropriate poly count and LOD meshes.

(click to show/hide)

So according to Tydeus, the person in question needs to be able to create item stats and add them to a google document, probably like excel in microsoft  office for spreadsheets,  propose good quality models for vote... and that's about it really. We're sort of at the point here where almost every item suggestion is ready to go ingame (with the exception of some of panos's many suggestions), so really, a well trained monkey could do this job pretty much.

The only thing is that someone WOULD have to know something about graphic design and texturing and all that for the occasional bad apple, if the manager in question didn't just pass it over for being poorly done or redundant or whatever. there are also models that look good that end up needing more work, sometimes has to do with the way they're animated too soo...

Really, at the end of the day, what we need in an item manager is someone who has a good mind for the balance already, who has a good eye for model errors and whatnot, and who can coordinate with model creators and crpg balancing/moderating community to add good models. Modeling and all that stuff is secondary. Therefore, just about anyone could do this.

So does anyone here have a good idea/history of posts about item/game balance, a fair amount of time 10+ hours a week to lend to doing the job, and has a good ability to communicate? That's really all we need right now.

As a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind seeing exactly whats involved in the nitty gritty of it, I have some experience with 3d 3+ years, game and item balance suggestions, and i get along fairly well off with people. I may just want to do it. I'm still a fan of having an item management team rather than just 1 guy doing it though, simply because it its easier that way on everyone, and more work can be done with less effort at a higher quality.

Offline Dexxtaa

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2014, 10:04:22 pm »
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Tydeus can.

But the smarmy bastard is busy giving himself retextures of shit to show off for events !!!
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Offline Jona

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2014, 10:52:36 pm »
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I have some experience with 3d

What does that even mean, exactly? Seeing in 3D in the real world? Playing 3D games? 3D modeling in a CAD program? 3D modeling in zbrush or a related program? 3D modeling in blender? 3D animation? "Experience with 3D" really doesn't mean much of anything, considering anyone who has two eyes has some experience with 3D. No offense, but your resume-writing skills could use some work...

Anyways, I do agree with you that really, anyone could do this job. The most important quality for any candidates would be enthusiasm, and of course having plenty of free time to devote to this task would be another perk. However, the more knowledge on the subject someone has, the better they could do their job. If the crpg community as a whole really likes an armor set, however it won't be added since the chainmail is too dull, then the item manager could work on it to make it acceptable if they know how to do some texturing. Really, it all boils down to how useful the devs would want their item manager to be. If they want someone who simply funnels in all of the many requests, then they could pick anyone. If they want someone who really knows their stuff like zagibu did, then they will have a harder time finding someone. Regardless, the odds of them hiring a new item manager are slim to none, since they "are not by any means stranded" without an item manager. Granted, the community wants one so we could get more shiny things added, the devs don't really understand that and thus we shall be stuck where we are.

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Offline Soldier_of_God

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2014, 04:03:15 am »
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Well Jona, I have 3+ years of experience of
-texturing/texture baking (3d program specific texture creation via ingame materials)
-3d and 2d graphic design with 3d studiomax 20XX, cs3 adobe suite Photoshop, Gimp, Wings 3d.
-Animating and rigging (Creating bone structures for animation of objects/characters)

http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/a-new-2h-mace-%28model-project-to-add-mace-wip%29/msg433134/#msg433134

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/more-black-armor-plz/msg970802/#msg970802

As a reference, ask evil eye ernie of hospitaller, i did some gratis 3d art for him.

I wont list all the game balance threads i've commented on, or my other game suggestions.
Also, it was not so much an official proposal or request to be considered, but rather i would like to see what all is involved before i decided to take up the torch. So that's what I meant that I had 3+ years experience with 3d, if the statement itself was not self-explanatory in nature.



Offline Tydeus

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Re: Do we need a new item manager?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2014, 04:47:22 am »
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Anyways, I do agree with you that really, anyone could do this job. The most important quality for any candidates would be enthusiasm, and of course having plenty of free time to devote to this task would be another perk. However, the more knowledge on the subject someone has, the better they could do their job. If the crpg community as a whole really likes an armor set, however it won't be added since the chainmail is too dull, then the item manager could work on it to make it acceptable if they know how to do some texturing. Really, it all boils down to how useful the devs would want their item manager to be. If they want someone who simply funnels in all of the many requests, then they could pick anyone. If they want someone who really knows their stuff like zagibu did, then they will have a harder time finding someone. Regardless, the odds of them hiring a new item manager are slim to none, since they "are not by any means stranded" without an item manager.
Pretty much this. The last sentence of course is completely off the mark though. "Devs don't really understand" No, it's because we understand that the community just wants nearly anything (not necessarily a bad thing, it just isn't what we want) that finding an appropriate Item Manage is so much more difficult. If we could guarantee that every applicant had high standards, we wouldn't have to worry about things getting added that don't deserve to be in game. What's more, is that Item Managers have to have access to the cRPG MS files, as well as write access to the Item Sheet we use, so trust plays a factor as well.

Just to clarify, Item Managers aren't Item Balancers. Unless after we find a new Item Manager (assuming we do) things change, they won't be able to vote on any item/mechanics balance changes, so their views on balance are irrelevant. What's important is that they value quality over quantity. Yes we have some low quality models, but we do not remove items and considering how cRPG began, that's to be expected. If we can replace the uglier models and textures we have with better ones, it's better to do that than to add all new items.

Edit: I probably didn't stress the 'trust' factor properly. Of all the requirements, being able to trust a candidate I'd imagine, would certainly fall in the top 3.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 04:57:20 am by Tydeus »
chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character