Great lances

[gazda]

adding few more great lances with different lenght that cant stab, for example 210, 245, 270 and make them retain couching position for very long time (maybe unlimited) if the speed is high enough,
and make the longer laces require more speed to couch

[Vlad007]

Totaly agree with this. Couched great lance should out range stabbed heavy lance end of story

[vinnytk]

I've been using it lately and it is pretty weak.

A heavy lance thrust out ranges it by a lot while being able to attack more and have better aim.

Also everyone in the game has the broken long spear which also our ranges it by a lot


Bring back the lance of compensation or whatever.  Before it was OP because of length, but with the recient saturation of long range weapons I think it would be fine and offer and alternative to every horsey having to use a heavy lance just to compete.

[Vlad007]

Yes i think the Great lance needs to be increased in Length. I use it over the heavy lance because i dont like stab cav. A lance is made to be couched that is how it is effective

[Overdriven]

For a note from a cav clan.

GK tried something to see how effective it would be. Something many people think cavalry should do (rather than be ninja's).

We loaded up our heaviest horses (mostly mamluks), armour and great lances on the ruins map. About 40 people per side.

We formed in a line (about 10-15 cav), waited for the scattered enemy infantry who were engaged in the front and charged with couched lances on the flat section behind the gate house in front of the village.

The result was less than effective. If the great lance struck, it did minimal damage (why are they so weak?).

Most of the time the lances didn't hit, were easy to avoid and we got stopped by even a simple lolstab. When pretty much any weapon can stop a full charging, heavy armoured horse, then it doesn't work very well.

The majority of our kills were from charge damage (bumps) on people with poor health.

If people want cav to stop back stabbing, then something needs to be done when a fully armoured (very expensive), organised cavalry charge barely has any effect on a broken and disorganised infantry force. We actually got very few kills, however the enemy decided to camp and form a shield wall the next round from pure fear  So it was effective from that pov. But GK has a few of the best lancers in the game, and even they were struggling to kill anything with a great lance.

If they are near useless even in a heavy cavalry charge of a large number, then something is badly wrong.

I know they were always OP in native, but now they seem pretty near useless. They are very much UP. The heavy lance is by far the better weapon, even in a heavy cav charge. Which makes little sense.

[Vlad007]

We did a similar thing on NA yesterday with a organised cavalry charge  across a bridge with plated charges and other heavy horse only about 6-7 of us. The pikes stopped us in our tracks and so did LOL stabers we managed to push through them but it was costly. The great lance is ok 1 on 1 because you can swing left on impack so as to disengage the horse head from the targets strike giving you a better reach advantage. In an organised cavalry charge you can only put the great lance out in front (because you have an organised formation)  so you have the horses forequarters in front which decreases the overall reach. Organised cavalry charges are so much fun with the great lance but are very ineffective. The great lance length needs increasing.

I also think that there shuold be a small chance of pole arms  not stopping cav dead in their tracks.

[Overdriven]

The great lance length needs increasing.

I also think that there shuold be a small chance of pole arms  not stopping cav dead in their tracks.

Agreed to both!

Maybe not for pikes. But certainly for other polearms and lolstabs.

[Wookimonsta]

yeh, i tried the GL too and noticed the same thing. Not to mention the time between couches is really long. At the same time, heavy horses do very little charge damage against anyone in decent armor. I can get fully hit by a plated charger several times and walk away.

[vinnytk]

I'm running a board and sword cav and start out each round with the GL.  The couch timer isn't that bad in open maps where you can get to a flank and run a counter clockwise route.  By the time you get back around for another attack the timer is up.  Plus it keeps the lance on the right side of the horse and sticking out allowing for more effective attack length and a larger hitbox (almost a lolstab with a couched lance).

But that is pretty much the only way the GL is effective.

It can't be used on hilly maps as it is to hard to keep up couch speed.  Heavy lance is fine with hills, just a little less damage from smaller speed bonus.

It can't be used in city maps as there isn't enough space to get a couch down.  That is fine and to be expected though.  HL is less effective in city maps because of the nerf to its turn radius but it is still usable at least.

It isn't all that effective verse other horses.  As already posted the GL is out ranged by a stabbing HL so it will always lose that battle.  The GL also can't attack while chasing another horse.  Even if you do land a couch from behind they don't instant kill like they use to and the horse will still live.  The GL is great for taking out plated chargers though as they are slow and a couch from the side will take it down in one hit but a HL could do that just as easily.  That doesn't even take into the wacky hit boxes when attack from the side though.


I don't want the GL to be better then a HL but it needs some advantages.  Increasing the range or making a new longer range couch only lance has a place in the game.

[Digglez]

i concur great lance is useless, I even have better use of jousting lance when trying to buttcouch tincans

[Overdriven]

Do it.

Bump.

[Wookimonsta]

people oftne complain that its a 1 hit kill, but you can actually absorb quite alot of the damage by just running away with a high agi character .
Tried it today, medium armored guy can survive a direct hit from a +2 courser at full speed if he runs away from it.

Also, can couchable-onlies be 1slot? they are totally useless on the ground.

[Kafein]

I fully agree to a buff of great lances. Or at least having decent couched-only weapons.

Currently the heavy lance is simply superior because even if you indeed want to couch it, you can, and as the reach is ridiculous anyway, you don't really care about it.

So if and when we will have "usable" great lances, please don't allow other lances to couch. That won't hurt them much anyway.

Also, I think that adding a random factor to the cav stopping isn't needed. Sometimes people that try to stop me with a polearm miss for no reason (weapon going through) and furthermore I doubt anyone would ever try to stop cav again if there's a chance to fail with the weapon they use.



AFAIK currently when you use the great lance you forward reach goes barely further than the horse head, which is honestly retarded.

[dochtorgajo]

I just started char using horse and great lance. 

It is acceptable that I must run from any horse one on one and have no chance killing him if hes aware of me. But if we go head on and I kill his horse and he still kill me with light lance at the same time (twice today) thats really weird. Unless it has 300 reach its nonsence it cant be stabbed. Making it long wouldnt do no harm as any horseman with melee weapon can dispatch such a lancer easily and if infantry want to survive it cant just be running around in the middle of a field. It would make it good for such a charge in formation maybe even against cavalry but almost useless in many other cases. (But there should be one or two really long pikes able to outreach it anytime so well organized inf allways has the advantage)

Also any horse from plated charger higher shouldnt be stopped by that mild poking like in WB. Maybe pikes could be braceable with little reach penalty while kneeling so that a person staying in place stucks it into ground and can turn around freely but once he moves he must once again retain position. If its point hits rider or horse it deals same damage as if couched maybe. 10 pikemen in circle could be almost impregnable like this.

Also if couched lancing could kill horse and rider at the same time once again it could be great. Its BS that some sword can cut both armoured horse and man in half but lance can spike only horse.

[Vlad007]

Yes I aggree

Make the great lance longer than all other weapons accept the pike. This inludes stabed weapons. I use the GL only because of the RPG factor I dont like the look or feel of stab lancing even though it is more effective.