Heavy Lance is useless.

[Darkoveride]

Heavy lance is good in the right hands still you get a nice hanging animation with it which gives you a bit of room for error on timing which is nice. But hey who ever said cav should be easy for everyone.

[Shemaforash]

Lance cav is terrible compared to 1h cavalry in cRPG, in other mods there's legitimate reasons to use lance as well as the sword

[MURDERTRON]

Make it 4D on foot.

[San]

That would be funny.

I do think heavy lance is tougher to use overall, but the parts where it excels at are great. Based on the current metagame, I don't think going back to 26p would be bad.

[Lecram]

It`s slow, you need two thrusts with full speed to kill the average archer and it`s fucking expensive.

The fact that 90% of the lancers out there use lance/light lance proves how much unbalance there is between those 3 lances.


Either give a small buff to heavy lance (stats wise) or decrease its upeek cost

Panos i made already a thread about the heavy (g)lane
http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/balance-the-heavy-lance/msg863458/#msg863458

[Tydeus]

The reach may be a bit better ( +15 and +10) but your average player can easily counter your thrust with a thrust and basic footwork.

I think you're just bad at cav, and by bad at cav, I mean only a 3:1 k:D, not 4 or 5 to 1.

[BlindGuy]

I think you're just bad at cav, and by bad at cav, I mean only a 3:1 k:D, not 4 or 5 to 1.

Tydeus best player....

I actually snorted in real life, incredible how funny that sentence is.

[MURDERTRON]

I think you're just bad at cav, and by bad at cav, I mean only a 3:1 k:D, not 4 or 5 to 1.

Honestly the only the only difference between 3-1 and 5-1 is being willing to exit when you're about to die.

[San]

Once I started to consciously avoid holding for longer than 2-3 seconds, attacking with the heavy lance became a lot easier. With the other more damaging weapons, you don't have to worry as much about such a thing.

[Shemaforash]

Once I started to consciously avoid holding for longer than 2-3 seconds, attacking with the heavy lance became a lot easier. With the other more damaging weapons, you don't have to worry as much about such a thing.

Players don't "refresh" their hits to get the most damage out of them at all times?

[San]

I would hold for a second longer than I should, because I would focus on how to approach an enemy. That took a few seconds by itself, and I had to learn to refresh even when close. I guess a more apt description of what I said was not to hold more than 1-2 seconds, not 2-3, which means refreshing a lot more often than I did before.

[CrazyCracka420]

Get a faster horse, or get more power strike.  With 8 power strike on a courser it destroys people, even with 6 PS on my level 30 alt it's a beast.  The reason I use it is because it allows you to go up against any other lancer out there and not be at a reach disadvantage.  I also like that you can outreach a couched great lance if you time it just right, you can't do that with a lance.

The lance is an amazing weapon too though, I think it's the best lance overall (can still take on other cav, but likely will get outreached by a heavy lance user that is competent).  It is fast and hurts like hell so it's great for playing cav the correct way, which is attacking infantry (not other cav).  But since I have A.D.D. and attack other cav I use the heavy.

Also san makes a good point about the hold times, it's very important to be "refreshing" so you're not holding for an extremely long time. 

I think you're just bad at cav, and by bad at cav, I mean only a 3:1 k:D, not 4 or 5 to 1.

KDR is not really a good indicator, at least IMO.  I think I'm one of the best cavalry players in NA (at least whenever I'm playing, even on my shitty work laptop nowadays).  And I only have a 2.3:1 KDR.

10406/4449, 2.3:1

You're basing your numbers off of people who would leave the server if they lost one round to avoid having a bad KDR.  They only cared about their KDR, not playing seriously.  Cav like me, who continue playing even on non-cav based maps are going to have that hurt their potential KDR.  But since I don't care about my KDR, I'm not going to leave to just artificially pad it.  I can easily go 5 or 10:1 KDR on cav friendly maps. 

[Oberyn]

Heavy lance is best lance for fighting other cav hands down. Also best for head on thrusts and couches, not counting the couch-only lances. If all you do is backstab infantry then yes other lances are obviously superior.

[chesterotab]

Heavy lance owns. Mix it with the recently buffed super courser that is "faster than the fastest recorded race horse" (saw Tydeus say that in battle) and you are on your way towards becoming a true crutch master.

If heavy lance gets buffed again, i am calling shenanigans.

[imisshotmail]

I only briefly looked over this thread because reading opinions from people who are really bad and don't understand things is worthless(every balance post Panos has ever made), but the ones I read don't seem to understand how to use the Heavy Lance at all.

The reason you all think it is really bad, and that the Lance is better is because none of you are good enough to be able to 1v1 Infantry players and kill them, which is where the Heavy Lance is absolute king and the Lance cannot even come close to it. I know you're all just gonna say "b-bbut the person can just block down and be invincible" but that is really not the case because if you understand how to couch correctly with the Heavy Lance, it will convincingly outreach any weapon shorter than an Awlpike and is actually surprisingly hard to dodge for most people if you do it right.

For all you bad Cavalry players who just attack people from behind or go after archers, the Lance is better though which is obviously why you think that.

Although what I would suggest is to up the damage of every lance, and nerf bump damage so the actual damage equals out to the same in the end, just its more reliant on your stab/couch hitting than just blocking and bumping..