Simple idea to nerf ha without nerfing regular archers

[matt2507]

As the title say, i got an idea to nerf horses archers without nerfing the archers on foot.
The idea is simple: adding a secondary mode to bow who are usable on horses.

In exemple, for the Nomad bow, i add a secondary mode and make the primary mode unusable on horse. If a player mount an horse, he was automaticly in secondary mode.

["nomad_bow",         "Nomad Bow",
[("nomad_bow",0),("nomad_bow_case", ixmesh_carry)],
itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_cant_use_on_horseback|itp_next_item_as_melee,
itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,
101 ,
weight(2.4)|difficulty(2)|spd_rtng(62)|shoot_speed(48)|thrust_damage(21 ,  cut),imodbits_bow ],


["ha_nomad_bow",         "Nomad Bow",
[("nomad_bow",0),("nomad_bow_case", ixmesh_carry)],
itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,
itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,
90 ,
weight(2.4)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(55)|shoot_speed(40)|thrust_damage(18 ,  cut),imodbits_bow ],

In blue is the primary mode, usable only on foot.
In green is the secondary mode for ha with other item stats.
"itp_cant_use_on_horseback" set the primary mode unusable on horse.
"itp_next_item_as_melee" define the next item in the script as secondary mode.

Theses values are just for the exemple but with some testing and somes tweaks, i'm sure it can be good.
And it can also work for hx 

What people think about that ?

[Nehvar]

Neat idea but, personally, I'd be cool with nerfing all archers...to death.  Either way.

[Krex]

Neat idea but, personally, I'd be cool with nerfing all archers...OBLIVION 

FTFY
Agreed.

[Blackbow]

look like a great idea !!

[Macropus]

Its really nice indeed, and doesn't seem too hard to implement I guess?

[matt2507]

Its really nice indeed, and doesn't seem too hard to implement I guess?

Normaly no. The more difficult is to find a good balancing for the secondary mode.

[Tydeus]

There's some other stuff that demands fixing before we look into this, but it's certainly worth keeping in mind, assuming this doesn't have any unintended side-effects.

+1, quality proposal.

[Algarn]

Bump. I saw on my brother's screen the amount of horse ranged ( around 10 horse archers , 5/6 with yumis), kill it with fire please.

[STR_aD_Sargon_eqv]

As the title say, i got an idea to nerf horses archers without nerfing the archers on foot.
The idea is simple: adding a secondary mode to bow who are usable on horses.

In exemple, for the Nomad bow, i add a secondary mode and make the primary mode unusable on horse. If a player mount an horse, he was automaticly in secondary mode.

In blue is the primary mode, usable only on foot.
In green is the secondary mode for ha with other item stats.
"itp_cant_use_on_horseback" set the primary mode unusable on horse.
"itp_next_item_as_melee" define the next item in the script as secondary mode.

Theses values are just for the exemple but with some testing and somes tweaks, i'm sure it can be good.
And it can also work for hx 

What people think about that ?

i want u for presedent of crpg

[Prinz_Karl]

Please implement this as quickly as possible, very good idea.

[Geon]

Great idea, but what good would this really do? Nerfing damage and accuracy wont change much. So what if it takes 16 arrows to kill someone instead of 10. You want to really nerf HA? Change shield difficulty to STR. That way all the 2h heroes can carry around board shields. I'll still play HA either way because there will always be idiots left to kill.

On a side note if this was implemented I assume that would take away any chances of being able to weapon switch between arrow types.

[Joseph Porta]

Awesome idea imo 

[Senni__Ti]

Damage and accuracy aren't why HA's are hated.

HA would still be able to kite endlessly, still with arrow stun + stagger. Just as irritating.

What I posted in the game balance version of this thread:

(click to show/hide)

(ti_on_weapon_attack,1,0,[
(multiplayer_is_server),
(store_trigger_param_1, ":agent_no"),
(gt,":agent_no",0),
(agent_is_alive,":agent_no"),
(agent_get_horse,":horse_agent_no",":agent_no"),
(ge,":horse_agent_no",0),  #Trying to minimise CPU time ASAP, by limiting to cav quickly
(agent_get_wielded_item,":item_id",":agent_no"),
(item_get_type,":item_type",":item_id"),
(eq,":item_type",itp_type_bow),  #Now limiting to bow users
(agent_set_horse_speed_factor,":agent_no",90),  #Horse speed reduction to 90%
],
[
(multiplayer_is_server),
(store_trigger_param_1, ":agent_no"),
(gt,":agent_no",0),
(agent_is_alive,":agent_no"),
(agent_get_horse,":horse_agent_no",":agent_no"),
(ge,":horse_agent_no",0),
(agent_set_horse_speed_factor,":agent_no",100),  #Restored to 100% 1 second later
]),

This should work, but I'm not sure if it's triggered on arrow release, or as soon as you press LMB.

Could always swap the trigger for a LMB check, but that would require client side stuff, then passed onto serverside.

Example is all serverside. (would add some load to the CPU :/, may not be the best way to nerf HA.)

Would probably have some bugs, like if you/horse died between firing the arrow and the restore part happening. Next horse you get on could be stuck at 90%, regardless of weapon etc.

Could be fixed by removing the mounted checks, but I'm not sure if the horse speed factor would complain if you weren't on a horse. (bug testing!)

All assuming my code works... :p

I know CRPG uses 1.14X, so no modifier, but you could change the riding skill directly (as suggested by Huscarlton Banks), or some WSE alternative to the modifier (if there is one).

[Johammeth]

HA arrows that hit the ground now deal damage to the shooter's horse, to simulate the hazards of firing sharp, pointy objects willy nilly into the field where your horse grazes.

Totally realistic!!11

[Algarn]

Bump. Balancers should take a look again to that thread.