Archery overhaul

[Joseph Porta]

Would have to test how that damage exactly turns out to be ingame.

Guess that is up to the testers to do.

All in all a good idea, but some miscalculated change, something you didn't think of and archery is ruined.

So I guess before implementing this has to be tested excessively.


Still I think to not render Archers useless the damage Bodkins do against Tincans has to be very high. Two shotting a tincan no matter what would have to be the case really.
Because nobody gives a shit about tactics, so nobody is defending the archers from tincans. If they need 4 arrows to kill a tincan, while only having 5 bodkins, they will die for sure. (unless its someone like bagge or steevee)

Very delicate changes in general, but once all problems are sorted this could make archery more interesting for people dedicated to either learn to get good at it, or who already are good at it.

Tbh, altering stats is really like trying to block whilst being blindfolded, and I really dont know how the dev teams does this and tests these changes.

I proposed the pierce damage being doubled on bodkins, but you have only 33% of the arrows you originally have, so it could possibly be upped to 5 or 6. But as you said, it is SO FUCKING HARD to predict what the exact changes will do in practice.

but some miscalculated change, something you didn't think of and archery is ruined.

100% agreed, and I am just an amateur when it comes to item balance/changes. You have no idea how many bumps you run into when changing these stats, I do doubt myself(alot), but I also think when correctly executed my idea could work and bring more depth to archery.

When correctly executed..

[Joseph Porta]

God, do I sound lecturing? If so, that is not my intention.., 

[Algarn]

Selling bodkin arrows +1 and nordic sword +2.

(click to show/hide)

You will cry, I swear. You will cry because if there is a free respec, I swear to make everything to annoy people even more. Stop fucking with archery for fuck sake. FIVE... FIVE fucking arrows for a whole battle. Ten arrows for a whole battle where everyone is crutching plates and you need 6 shots with a longbow, bodkins, and 9 PD to kill them. Hell, just no.

EDIT : I'm loling to the longbow's damage buff, and also to the tatar arrow's buff. Destroy bodkins and make tatar arrows even more OP, which makes you 34 (unloomed)+ 13 (unloomed) = 47 damages + PD increase. Only in cRPG.

[Joseph Porta]

^^

Actually, at +3 you will have 16 arrows. 
 Or 8 in one quiver, 8 arrows with massive armor piercing damage capabilities. I understand you want to kill 10 players per round, but is that reasonable?

Did you read the full thread? Or did you selectively read what you didnt like?

[Switchtense]

Selling bodkin arrows +1 and nordic sword +2.

(click to show/hide)

You will cry, I swear. You will cry because if there is a free respec, I swear to make everything to annoy people even more. Stop fucking with archery for fuck sake. FIVE... FIVE fucking arrows in a quiver for a whole battle. Ten arrows for a whole battle where everyone is crutching plates and you need 6 shots with a longbow, bodkins, and 9 PD to kill them. Hell, just no.

That is why I said you need to buff the damage that much that you can kill anything, even a Butan, with 2 arrows max.

But another problem with that is that it makes you unable to shoot at anything further away than 10 metres. Cause its 10% of your ammo wasted.

So I guess a big accuracy buff would be needed as well. (Cause if you can only shoot at close targets you are basically playing a nerfed thrower)

[Joseph Porta]

Btw, switch, I replied to your post. 

[Algarn]

ok ... That's entirely legit, still, going with 8 arrows to war in a quiver sounds retarded, and is retarded. Also, it's at the max rank, people will have to get it for like 900k. Good, good...

I might go full retard a day, and go crossbowman like daveUKR, doing 2.5/1 as kd with a level 27 char. It never gets nerfed, so, that's cool.

[Joseph Porta]

EDIT : I'm loling to the longbow's damage buff, and also to the tatar arrow's buff. Destroy bodkins and make tatar arrows even more OP, which makes you 34 (unloomed)+ 13 (unloomed) = 47 damages + PD increase. Only in cRPG.

But it is cut damage, and ofcourse, as ive mentioned a few times in this thread, numbers are experimental and a bit random, as I dont kniw what exactly the effect is.

ok ... That's entirely legit, still, going with 8 arrows to war in a quiver sounds retarded, and is retarded. Also, it's at the max rank, people will have to get it for like 900k. Good, good...

But practicly everyone does have +3 arrows.. 

The idea behind my idea is is to take a bag of cut arrows for your every day targets and a bag of bodkins strictly for very high armored players.

[Switchtense]

Well, basically these changes, if implemented properly so that they won't ruin archery, basically push archers to go Legolas on the enemies one shotting the first 10 (16) people they see, then go apeshit on everybody else in melee.

Because support is not possible with these changes. The risk of either hitting a teammate killing him, or just missing the shot wasting a lot of your ammo is way too high.

Archers would be forced to get enganged in close quarter fights to make sure they hit shit rather than hoping the enemy will not dodge the arrow.

The more I think about this, the more I believe that it has too many downsides, that it would ruin archery completely.

[Switchtense]

Also huge problem: Damage of bodkins would have to be buffed by a shitload to be able to kill tincans. This renders cut arrows useless, since bodkins would just one-shot lightly armoured targets anyway.

So everybody would only use bodkins

And also, ever since I started playing archer I obviously started picking up arrows. And I can say that only about 25% of all arrows I see ingame are Masterwork. Like 5% are +1 and +2 together. The other 70% are +0.

[Joseph Porta]

Hmm, a longbow archer can carry 32 arrows, this doesnt strike me as extremely low, the only arrows he actively needs to watch and use carefully are the bodkins. Which are situational in the way they would be implemented.

[Algarn]

Joseph, don't you realize that 90% of players on EU 1 got at least 60 body armor ? (loomed gloves+armor, and often a good hp stack).

The worst is, buff tatar arrows, it's cheaper than bodkins, and almost do more damage than them already, people are simply dumb, or too poor to change arrows. Also, +13 damage would make ANY bow 1 slot deadly.

I imagine :
 7 PD archer + maxed WM + Masterwork tatar bow + tatar arrows = 24 + 13 = 37 cut damage + 56%(37 cut) + wpf's damage, which is around 1,5% per 10 wpf.

Just imagine how OP it would be, adding to this pin point accuracy, and huge missile speed.

EDIT : I play with 18 bodkins. Not less, not more. I'm still butthurt because if balancers put this in game, it won't be the last fucking archery rework.

[Joseph Porta]

Also huge problem: Damage of bodkins would have to be buffed by a shitload to be able to kill tincans. This renders cut arrows useless, since bodkins would just one-shot lightly armoured targets anyway.

Hmm, it will eventually be wether you want punching strength or more arrows. You could use the bodkins only, but youll have such a small quiver that youll be out very fast.

In my opinion picking arrows up is silly in the first place. They should lose 1 rank once they are shot to simulate collateral damage with walls/objects. Or not being able to be picked up at all, cause theyll most likely be damaged upon impact.

[Joseph Porta]

Joseph, don't you realize that 90% of players on EU 1 got at least 60 body armor ? (loomed gloves+armor, and often a good hp stack).

The worst is, buff tatar arrows, it's cheaper than bodkins, and almost do more damage than them already, people are simply dumb, or too poor to change arrows. Also, +13 damage would make ANY bow 1 slot deadly.

I imagine :
 7 PD archer + maxed WM + Masterwork tatar bow + tatar arrows = 24 + 13 = 37 cut damage + 56%(37 cut) + wpf's damage, which is around 1,5% per 10 wpf.

Just imagine how OP it would be, adding to this pin point accuracy, and huge missile speed.

I did say that these numbers where totally random - I have no idea what an increase of 1 damage as a stat actually has in game. I am just proposing a new system for archery.

What would your suggested stats be? I think you know alot more about the way stats work then me.

[Joseph Porta]

What about this?

Top tier bows ( 3 slots) - allowed to fire bodkins & Tatars

Code: [Select]

Long bow

Speed:40
Thrust:32 cut (+1)
Missile speed:40
Accuracy:104

Rus bow

Speed:41
Thrust:29 cut (+1)
Missile speed:41
Accuracy:103

Yumi

Speed:38
Thrust:27 cut (+1)
Missile speed:38
Accuracy:103

Horn bow

Speed:44
Thrust:26 cut (+2)
Missile speed:44
Accuracy:101

Bow

Who, besides me, uses this?



Possible arrow stats.

Code: [Select]

Bodkins

Length:93
Thrust:4 pierce (+2, double it is now)
Ammo:5 (-10)
(0 slot)

Tatar

Length:89
Thrust:11 cut (+1)
Ammo:18

Barbed

Length:90
Thrust:9 cut (+2)
Ammo: 20 (-2)

Arrows

Length:88
Thrust:6 cut (+1)
Ammo:20