Ideas for fixing range

[Konrax]

I have a few ideas to help fix the issues with range so I am going to put them all out, I wouldn't want to implement all of them, but some of these could work and help cut down on range spam.

Overall:

1) Implement a range specific damage type, make arrows / bolts have the damage stat, and the bow / xbow only contribute to missile speed and reload speed ect ect. Make armour more effective against range damage in general. Increase bonus damage from missile speed to make higher end weapons more effective.


Archers:

1) Make most bows at least 2 slots, some of the higher end bows 3 slots. Also make most bows drop on switch, some of the short bows should be sheathable.

2) Reduce the rate at which range weapons can fire overall, short bows should have a bigger variance in speed.

3) Significantly reduce the time an archer can hold a notched arrow, and have it become longer based on how much higher an archers powerdraw skill is above the requirement of a bow.


Crossbows:

1) Make most xbows at least 2 slots, some of the higher end xbows 3 slots. Also make most xbows drop on switch, some of the light xbows should be sheathable.

2) Increase the requirements on xbows overall

3) Make WPF effect reload speed of xbows, do not cap this stat.


Throwing:

1) Throwing needs to have a significant reduction in missile speed, it should feel more like you are lobbing a throwing weapon in a high arc in order to hit the enemy. It should be easier to throw it over a group of enemies and hit people in the back. Throwing should not have a very long range overall. Have Power Throw increase missile speed above the amount required to use the weapon.


HA/HX/HT:

1) Horse should have a penalty to acceleration and maneuverability while the bow/xbow/throwing weapon is out, this is realistic and will also allow cav to at least have a chance of catching these characters, as well as making it more difficult for them to squirrel through infantry.


BONUS:

1) All players should be able to equip any shield, shields should be buffed across the board.

2) Shield skill should not increase the durability of shields, but instead decrease the effect of the weight of a shield of someone carrying it, as well as increase block speed.


Post comments, also post any ideas you might have to help bring range into balance.

[Huscarlton_Banks]

Just some game mechanic stuff:

Overall:

1) Implement a range specific damage type, make arrows / bolts have the damage stat, and the bow / xbow only contribute to missile speed and reload speed ect ect. Make armour more effective against range damage in general. Increase bonus damage from missile speed to make higher end weapons more effective.

Ranged weapons have their own armor modifier from the extra_penetration flag.

Increasing missile speed does not necessarily increase damage. Speed bonus is calculated from some factor of final projectile speed/speed of projectile from launch, with targets moving towards the projectile increasing the final projectile speed value, moving away = lower final projectile speed.

If you had a hitscan bow(that somehow worked with the wonky hit detection of warband), it would always deal base damage and never have any speed bonus.

There wouldn't really be any point to using the bigger bows/xbows if they all did the same damage. I don't think that arrows/bolts have a working difficulty requirement either.

3) Make WPF effect reload speed of xbows, do not cap this stat.

It already does.

At the end of the day, as long as there are no extreme hard counters, ranged spam will happen. Once one team hits a critical mass of ranged, cavalry(even heavily armored) and shields get shot to pieces.

...And if they didn't get shot to pieces, then ranged would be really underpowered when there isn't a ridiculous amount of ranged working together.

It's a tricky balance.

It's funny that you would nerf throwing though. It's one of the better counters vs the other ranged if you have a shield.

[Konrax]

Not really counting it as a nerf in particular, being able to hit enemies in the back of a line would mean you are generally hitting softer targets / range units.

I'm just not a fan of how easy and accurate throwing is in the current game.

[Bulzur]

Not really counting it as a nerf in particular, being able to hit enemies in the back of a line would mean you are generally hitting softer targets / range units.

I'm just not a fan of how easy and accurate throwing is in the current game.

Wait what ?

Stones and daggers are very accurate indeed. But... if you take decent weapons,there's a huge luck factor.

[Algarn]

If rus/longbow are going to be 3 slots, you will have to buff the damages a lot, or you will see a lot more of those annoying pieces of shit with 15/27. If longbow is going to be three slots, at least, make it worth to take. Rus and longbow already are the slowest bows to draw, with quite low missile speed, high repair costs, and also, the lowest accuracy (compared to horn bow, and all nomad bows).  Keep destroying the mod, I don't care, I'm already out. The only thing that needs to be re-adjusted is the nomad/tatar/horn bows missile's speed, not the ability to fight in melee (already quite low) or the number of arrows. But yeah, as I said, keep fucking with balance, most of people doing such thread must be some pro archers who made 10 gens playing this class, and therefore, not biased at all.

[Xiou]

Here's an idea: Edit every map so there are no more roofs where a band of bundle of stickss can hop up and be absoultely untouchable because anyone trying to get up will get shot and anyone not going up will also get shot.

The main problem is not ranged weapons, it's how easy they are to abuse when you get maps that allow this shit.

[Cup1d]

make 0 slot shovel and teach infantry to dig trenches

[Konrax]

If rus/longbow are going to be 3 slots, you will have to buff the damages a lot, or you will see a lot more of those annoying pieces of shit with 15/27. If longbow is going to be three slots, at least, make it worth to take. Rus and longbow already are the slowest bows to draw, with quite low missile speed, high repair costs, and also, the lowest accuracy (compared to horn bow, and all nomad bows).  Keep destroying the mod, I don't care, I'm already out. The only thing that needs to be re-adjusted is the nomad/tatar/horn bows missile's speed, not the ability to fight in melee (already quite low) or the number of arrows. But yeah, as I said, keep fucking with balance, most of people doing such thread must be some pro archers who made 10 gens playing this class, and therefore, not biased at all.

That is some serious rage.

My apologies for wanting to make this excellent melee game have a little bit less counter strike in it.

The issue is that there is just too much range, it is too appealing to the masses BECAUSE it is easier to kill someone with a bow, than it is with a melee weapon.

[Godfredus]

If longbow is going to be three slots, at least, make it worth to take.

It already is.

[Algarn]

It already is.

Good for you then, but may I ask how effective you are with this bow ?  Compare to every other bow, it's not worth taking compared to the horn bow, just saying. But you must be more experienced at archery, so it might be really OP if you say so.

[Sniger]

Buff [shields]

[Konrax]

Buff [shields]

Maybe since it hasn't seen a buff since the mod started really.

It is the slowest, shortest range, and lowest damage melee build.

[Cup1d]

1) Make most bows at least 2 slots, some of the higher end bows 3 slots.

Let's kill all hybrids builds.

#chamberoftears

[Konrax]

Let's kill all hybrids builds.

#chamberoftears

You can still hybrid, but right now its just ridiculous.

I made an archer, he is level 18, and uses the long hafted knobbed mace, and a horn bow.

It's just stupid, I can smash people to pieces with that polearm no problem, and then sit back and shoot 15 arrows and maybe get a couple more kills.

I think if you want to use a REAL 2h weapon, your only range option should be to use throwing weapons.

If you want to use an xbow / bow, you should be limited to 1slot melee weapons, or 0 slot ones. There are still some 1slot 2h and polearm weapons.

[Lichen]

For crossbows I keep saying make the regular bolts CUT damage but no one listens.