Iraq falling appart

[Kafein]

I've talked shit about Ataturk on these forums before, but that was largely to troll Cicero. That man is the reason Turkey is literally the best muslim majority country to date on every single metric. Morrocco is also pretty cool, but not nearly as large and influential as Turkey. The only problem was he ALSO absorbed a lot of the western racial theory bullcrap along with the good secular ideas, leading to stuff like the mass deportation of armenians to die in desert "gulags".

Secularism and nationalism were very strongly linked back then, and still is in much of the middle east. Atatürk was already ahead of his time. Also note that the Armenian genocide started during WW1.

[Oberyn]

I don't think it was linked to secularism in particular. It was linked to the very idea of a "modern" nation-state, which is what Ataturk was trying to turn an area of the former Ottoman Empire into, specifically Anatolia. The idea of a nation-state at the time being inextricably linked to a homogenous population all with the same culture, language, etc...self-determination and sovereignty were supposed to be determined by "race" and culture.   

[Angantyr]

Regardless, here is a good article I like to refer to about it.

Good article, thanks.

[BlindGuy]

why are they randomly drive by shooting people?

This is what I wanna know.

EDIT: I figured it out, these are vengeance killings against ex-military personel and goverment functionaries I think.

[Oberyn]

Those were all in the northern part of Iraq between ~2012-2013, prior to ISIS conquering that part of the country. The way the Iraqi army in the north collapsed may have had more to do with the constant targetted assassinations, blackmail, threats, etc... the leadership was subjected to for years prior to the actual "war" against ISIS than to sectarian divisions. All the interviews of soldiers come back to the same thing, the generals and leaders deserted and left the numerically and technologically superior Iraqi army with no orders or plan.
http://understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/ISWBackgrounder_ISIS_Annual_Reports_0.pdf

[Kafein]

I don't think it was linked to secularism in particular. It was linked to the very idea of a "modern" nation-state, which is what Ataturk was trying to turn an area of the former Ottoman Empire into, specifically Anatolia. The idea of a nation-state at the time being inextricably linked to a homogenous population all with the same culture, language, etc...self-determination and sovereignty were supposed to be determined by "race" and culture.

I was trying to convey that secularism could not have appeared spontaneously without nationalism at that time.

[Christo]

I guess the US started bombing these ISIS dickheads.

Well somebody definitely did.

Edit: Yeah, right on

Obama authorizes targeted airstrikes in Iraq against Islamic militants, along with airdrops

[Daunt_Flockula]

Yesterday, Pentagon refuted media claims that "USA was getting ready to bomb ISIS". And today, I read the same news as you shared, but the version I read says "Bombing them is now allowed, if the terrorists threaten the US personnel in the area".

[Prpavi]

"Bombing them is now allowed, if the terrorists threaten the US personnel in the area".

I have no doubt in my mind they will eventually 

[Xant]

Yesterday, Pentagon refuted media claims that "USA was getting ready to bomb ISIS". And today, I read the same news as you shared, but the version I read says "Bombing them is now allowed, if the terrorists threaten the US personnel in the area".

Maybe you should get better sources? Obama has been discussing the option of bombing ISIS for a while now.

[Daunt_Flockula]

I know I should get better sources. These are just the things I happened to read on local media, which is very well-known to be not a very trustworthy source in itself. I just wanted to make sure based on what I know at the moment.

On another note, I have been hoping that they would bomb the living daylight out of those cannibals for a while now.

I have no doubt in my mind they will eventually

Indeed that sounds like an implicit remark that they will eventually. Got to read in between the lines more carefully I guess.

[Xant]

Bombing them just seems like poking the hornet's nest. Now they're going to target Americans as well, abroad and in-country.

[Daunt_Flockula]

I am kind of concerned about the immediate threat they pose at the moment. And they haven't been non-existent anyway. They are the same horde of mindless killers who have been terrorizing the region for decades. It is just that they now have this free pass in their hands with the Turkish army passivated and government that first supported them and later switched to keeping it on by turning a blind eye. In brief, I believe the hornet's nest doesn't even require poking at this time. The hornets are already at large and raging.

[Molly]

I am probably pretty ignorant for saying this but I don't feel threatened by this whole thing and I have a hard time to actually care what happens "down there".
This might change with time and on how it's developing but right now...

[Daunt_Flockula]

I guess I wouldn't give much of a damn, if I were living in Europe too.