Author Topic: 1 kill 53 deaths.  (Read 8358 times)

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Offline Phazey

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2011, 04:11:58 pm »
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Oh come on, nobody sits at x1 for 11 hours.

At the very least, you should average a multiplier near x2, which makes leveling to 20... what? Six hours of playing at best. That's two light evenings of playing.

In that time, you should have plenty to do, like i said in my post above. And you CAN kill people under level 20, it's really not that hard. Us 'veterans' get a 1 in 10 k:d or better under level 20. So don't act like you are forced to leech for days on end. It's just not true.

Offline Cingal

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2011, 04:28:28 pm »
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Oh come on, nobody sits at x1 for 11 hours.

At the very least, you should average a multiplier near x2, which makes leveling to 20... what? Six hours of playing at best. That's two light evenings of playing.

In that time, you should have plenty to do, like i said in my post above. And you CAN kill people under level 20, it's really not that hard. Us 'veterans' get a 1 in 10 k:d or better under level 20. So don't act like you are forced to leech for days on end. It's just not true.

Actually, if you assume the average win ratio is 50:50, given both teams are balanced an on a balance map, it would therefore mean that, in some cases, for every round a play would win, they were therefore lose one afterwards, making 1x the most common result, meaning 11 hours is much more possible to happen than six hours.

However, in a realistic situation, the actual length of time, is probably more likely to be closer to 8 hours. Unless you get lucky.

How are you not forced? Have you looked into the numbers exactly? Have you compared the Kills to Death of new players and compared these to higher levelled players?

Although, saying that, K/D is completely worthless, what's more much important is the feeling of worth in a battle.

Are you honestly telling me that a new player is going to feel worthwhile in a battle while getting one-shot and racking up a horrible death ratio?

To me, to imply as much would assume a complete lack of understanding of people playing the game.

While it's nice to reference veterans, new players are not veterans, and defaulting to "Lol lern 2 play" is not good design.



Offline Phazey

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2011, 04:31:05 pm »
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Go skip the fun, mr whine. Or go play native.

If you can't muster up the perserverance to get a character to level 20 without complaining as much as you do, well... clearly, this game is not for you.

... what's more much important is the feeling of worth in a battle.

Are you honestly telling me that a new player is going to feel worthwhile in a battle while getting one-shot and racking up a horrible death ratio?

Yes, that's exactly what i'm telling you. Getting a horrible k:d ratio and then finally getting the first kills is exactly what makes starting a new character on cRPG so much fun. It's a challenge.

Nobody said it's easy.

Your implicit assumption that you should get a good k:d ratio in the first hours of making a new character is just absurd.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 04:35:17 pm by Phazey »

Offline Blondin

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2011, 04:43:02 pm »
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Go skip the fun, mr whine. Or go play native.

If you can't muster up the perserverance to get a character to level 20 without complaining as much as you do, well... clearly, this game is not for you.

Yes, that's exactly what i'm telling you. Getting a horrible k:d ratio and then finally getting the first kills is exactly what makes starting a new character on cRPG so much fun. It's a challenge.

Nobody said it's easy.

Your implicit assumption that you should get a good k:d ratio in the first hours of making a new character is just absurd.

this, exactly what i wanted to say, but with better words!

Offline Cingal

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2011, 04:47:07 pm »
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Actually, I'm already level 19 or so and do pretty well.

I'm giving feedback on my experiences during the early days, and a complaint I have heard most often is "It's rough and not fun to be new".

So, how about, rather than instantly jumping on the "This person is complaining and needs to shut up."

We all think for a moment "Let's listen to a person's feedback and come up with a way to improve the game for those numerous complaints."

So please, some maturity would not go amiss.


I suggested the idea, that there should be servers only open to new players, however, as yet, nobody is to actually give any response to this.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 04:48:31 pm by Cingal »

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2011, 04:54:40 pm »
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That would only be viable if the server/s could be set up to only allow CD keys that had a total lifetime XP of less then a certain amount, otherwise you will have veteran players entering and trolling with low level characters.
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Offline Phazey

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2011, 05:17:26 pm »
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Cingal, i just strongly disagree with your view that cRPG should be easier on new players.

Part of the fun is that you level up in real battles with real players. Newbies and veteran players alike using all kinds of builds in a massive fight to the death. With a little luck, there is even some good teamplay going on. That's where you really learn the game. Not on some newbie only server. Being 'thrown into the deep' is part of cRPG's charm. Not something to be removed or changed.

I've already summed up lots of things to do as a peasant. Plenty to do, really! If you get bored leveling up, this game is not for you.
Yes, you'll lose most 1 vs 1 fights. So you're forced to try teamplay, maybe supporting a teamate. At the same time, you get time to get to grips with the maps, the battle dynamics, etc. Is it really that important to get a positive k:d-ratio? I think it's not. Quite the opposite: the fact that you are expected not to make any kills at first is what makes creating a new character fun. Therein lies the challenge: getting those first kills should be very difficult. Thus they are special and much more rewarding.

Starting a character at level 30 without the experience you get as a peasant is probably more frustrating, because you'll feel you should be able and are expected to get a positive k:d-ratio.

Back in the day, 'pre patch', it took weeks, not hours to get to a level where your character would become viable. Oddly enough, not many complained. Now, with all the measures to help new players get started, it never seems to be enough.

Offline Banok

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2011, 05:38:57 pm »
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its possible to have a postitive kdr from lvl 1 gen 0, done it before when it was even harder cause ppl were lvl 40 and always in full plate.

still hard though.

but if u really care about it can just play on siege server until ur high level.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 05:40:37 pm by Banok »

Offline Cepeshi

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2011, 06:23:25 pm »
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Phazh: the thing is, if you throw the guys a bone, they will want more next time...

But listen to the wise guy, for he speaks the truth! I remember running around, hiding like idiot for countless hours in old leveling system, feeling frustrated while getting spawn killed as afterwards you just spent time waiting for respawn with no XP/Gold, that was frustrating....

Now when i recruit some friends to try out cRPG, they are not complaining about speed of leveling, actually, i have not seen such post in forums for quite some time. But, when i started playing as a total newb, i remember farming for like a week to be ablet to buy a sword or something :D Now everything is handed out on a gold plate...(even tho i would like the option to transfer money to my alt, so boring waiting till i farm 20k for arbalest...)

Just man up, give it a go on duel server, continue playing and protip for having nice K/D ratio on web: go siege till ur lvl 20, the lifetime K/D does not get affected by siege numbers :P farm money, hone ur skills and go to battle prepared!

Offline Winchester

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2011, 07:02:05 pm »
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I am sure most of you dudes have a good heart and realy try to help newbs like Husasz and me (I experienced the -exact- same thing when i started playing this mod 2 days ago). The community of Mount&Blade and cRPG deserves realy a lot respect, that can not be questioned.

Following: Huge TLDR, do not read if you are not Dev or love Game Design
(click to show/hide)

Greets,
Winchester.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 07:05:53 pm by Winchester »

Offline Cepeshi

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2011, 09:43:16 pm »
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Wincherster, took me some time to chew thru the wall of text, even tho i am no dev or anything. You got some point, but as usual, there is one BUT.

When i started playing as a noob, i had one friend who showed me blocks (i suck), feints, chambers and all this stuff, as i bought the game on some discount just to play with this one person (long time friends back from Diablo). When i was then able to kill someone and had some experience, i took few newcomers to the duel server and showed them the same stuff my friend showed me. Afterwards, when we met in battle, we were cooperating and stuff, and i found some quite good players like that, well, not uberelite skillers, but mostly good teamplayers.

The thing is: do not be afraid to ask for help, i believe there are loads of people that would spend some time with you on duel server to practise and eventually show you a trick or two :) Just ask.

Edit: wanted to add something, but, forget :D
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 09:44:37 pm by Cepeshi »

Offline RandomDude

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2011, 11:02:14 pm »
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I dunno how there can be any complaints of slow levelling - it's never been as good for the majority really.

I didnt play c-rpg from day 1 but i remember being frustrated at Jesus (a player) for killing the peasant I was fighting and, yet again, I was denied a kill (the only way to get gold/xp). EDIT: I forget whether there was a bonus for the winning team or not but if there was, it was paltry compared to today.

Then there was the group xp - omg that was so much better. I played c-rpg a lot at that time and I saved my gold like a miser and bought my plate gear piece by piece. Finally I had it all except for plate boots but i refused to buy any boots until I had enough for the ones I wanted, and so people shot at my naked feet mostly haha. All of that took 2 weeks or more of intensive playing I think.

Now there's xp/gold for being dead... cmon.

There's even the option to jump to 30 if you really dont like the levelling process.

I cant say that I prefer being a peasant compared to high 20's but it doesnt last that long and you can have a laugh while doing it.

Winchester: I like the idea of a "mentor" system - which is kinda what you're suggesting with knights and squires. I played mount and blade before I played warband so I already knew what the fighting would be like. I didnt know anything about manual blocking and had to learn that in the duel arenas/tutorial bots but I can understand that for a complete newbie it could be even harder.

I dont think most players learned stuff from their clan - if you want to learn the skills you have to make the effort yourself.

Warband rewards skill and I love it because it's so different from the usual online games like Mmorpgs that just rewards stats and knowledge of when and how to use skills. Im good at those games too but warband and games like it are just more intense and exciting.

I dont think newbies should come straight into c-rpg and play in battle mode (it's unforgiving and un-fun for newbies right?) - which is what most probably do. I need to think about it some more before I type anything else.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 11:16:41 pm by RandomDude »

Offline oohillac

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2011, 02:29:08 am »
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I didn't get my first kill until maybe 40 deaths or so. I'm only at two kills now. A lot of the time I'll land a spearpoke or two, which at least helps.

I figured it would be like this, but I know once I level up more and gear out, things'll be better.

Sticking a downed lancer in the face with my pitchfork was pretty fun, though.

Offline Tristan

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Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2011, 03:03:36 am »
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I remember when I started cRPG. It was before everyone was a tincan, but some had just started to be able to get that equipment.
No retirement, no nada. Just a lot of playing to get gold for more eq.

I was also new to native and got my arse sincerely kicked. Switched to mount and musket and learned to play through that mod.
Came back to cRPG and hell I am still around.

What I am trying to say, that if you have a hard time killing something, when you actually achieve that goal it only becomes more awesome.

Oh, and remember the DUEL SERVER. A few minutes in there every day will teach you a lot!
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