Nerf Horse Archers (again)

[Thryn]

First off, I'm throwing realism right out the window. Why? I'm a firm believer that gameplay > realism. We need a game to have realistic aspects, but if balance isn't there, enjoyment would be it would fucking suck. So:

I would like to limit the number of arrows a HA can carry (instead of 3 slots of arrows, 2 slots). Most HA's run about the battlefield shootin4dayz. The harassment is too real. That is all.

Yes, I am aware that some HA's carry swords instead of 3 slots of arrows. This is for the 3 slot HA's.

In the name of Panos_the_Muted:

Discuss.

[I'll add a poll]

[Strudog]

well if there is that logic, why not do the same to archers, atm as an archer you can pew pew all round.

But fuck that, keep things as they are (apart from 1h cav)

[Thryn]

well if there is that logic, why not do the same to archers, atm as an archer you can pew pew all round.

Well, I find that most archers on the ground find a secondary weapon essential. Horse archers are so mobile that many of them do not carry other weapons, allowing them to pewpew for weeks longer than foot archers.

[San]

Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.

[Algarn]

Horse archers are fine. Even if they rape me, they always have to be at least 2 against me to do anything (Talking with a shielder char, not my main), and their arrows are hilariously bouncing on every armor above 55.  Honestly, if horse archers are getting nerfed, then, I gonna ask a huge nerf of heavy cavs, both lancers and 1hers since they don't delay the rounds, they win them by one hitting anyting moving, me included, whatever is the str build I use.

[Mr.K.]

Horse archer in medium armor and on a heavy horse is still pretty strong if not OP. Light horse archers have a lot to worry about though, even though cavalry can't really kill them.

As San said the problem is the high survivability. When I play HA, almost nothing can kill me even though I currently have 5 riding. Next level I'll have 8 so yeah... Other horse archers do 5-10% damage on my armor (53 total). Longbows and Xbows I need to avoid, but even against them I have a chance. I'm a really bad archer but still I get valour with my horse archer as often as I do with 1H cav. KDs are worse though cause I concentrate on the enemy cav mostly ofc. My gear costs 62-68k and I barely lose gold, due to high chance of X5.

Imo horse archers should be limited to lighter horses and forced to wear light armor. Same goes for HX as well.

[JasonPastman]

Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.

Not really though, because I have 9 riding and 15str and it still takes 2-3 hits for me to kill an HA (while I'm chasing) while it only takes them 2-3 hits with their bow to dismount me, meaning I can only win if they screw up or they are bad (which after a while they learn not to be).  So what this means for me (and everyone else) is when there is even just one HA on who has it out for me (or you) I've got to spend the whole round avoiding/running away from him, because all he has to do is put 2-3 shots into my horse, dismount me and then finish me off, while I have no way to respond.

@San, look buddy your op, so don't assume just cuz you can kill some op class we can to.

[Grumbs]

Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.

I mentioned before an idea about linking HA skill to riding skill somehow. So each point in HA reduces riding a bit which will slow them down or make them use weaker lower HP/amour horses. Not possible?

Also foot xbowers still need to be balanced better in their all around usefulness in every area. Plus 0 slot weapons are too good

[Utrakil]

A solution might be to reduce their Ridingskill (or their equivalent of speed,acceleration and maneuver) by two (or whatever number does the job) as soon as they arm their bow. if they want to be fast and agile they have to sheat the bow again.
This might encourage other cav to chase the HA because they catch up faster or don't get shot that often.
For the realism-lovers this could be explained that you ride better when you use the reins.

[Thryn]

@San, look buddy your op, so don't assume just cuz you can kill some op class we can to.

Let's turn this into a San e-peen thread.

[HarunYahya]

Hell no...
This suggestion is like suggesting "Planes are OP, buff tanks with mounted AA please" in Battlefield forum. If you wanna hunt a plane, you need a fighter plane you don't have a right to whine while using tank to kill a fucking plane.
So what now just because you can't catch a class that designed to avoid being caught shall devs render them even more useless ?

Im sorry but taking away realism too much from an RPG game will turn it into a clusterfuck arcade slasher. Horse archers were OP because people were chasing em blindly, thinking they were retreating from battlefield, it's a tactic called "Sahte ricad" meaning "fake retreat" same happens in cRPG after thousand years of invention of this tactic and you suggest to fuck the class up instead of finding a solution by yourself ?
Bullshit.

[Thryn]

Hell no...
This suggestion is like suggesting "Planes are OP, buff tanks with mounted AA please" in Battlefield forum. If you wanna hunt a plane, you need a fighter plane you don't have a right to whine while using tank to kill a fucking plane.

1/10 see me after class

One of the worst analogies I've seen

[kojiro34]

Ok, sorry my english isnt good, but i will try to be clair.
I did like 13 gen as HA and even if i am not  the best one (we all know 2 or 3 HA that are very good) i am decent enough to be representative. My others gen was as archer and i really hated cav that why i went to HA to counter them since they are really strong

1) HA is bad in 30 to 50 % of the map because we have no space to move

2) HA is good against cav and 2 handed (a pole arm who know how to move is still really hard to hit)

3) HA have hard time against a shielder (who know how to play because the bum  shot is really impredicable), agaisnt a good HX and against archer (or u need to have a secondairy weapon).

4) I always  hear cav screaming against HA, but common on, we are there to kill your horse, otherwise you are on rampage and yea any HA will target you because you are a larger target and with your horse you represent point. Even there, a good armored cav can kill me in many map if i dont have the place to move, it's happen often, i always target the best player cav from other team and often i get myself killed because.. They are good. Sometime i kill them, but i mean i am not a STF even if i didnt played for 1 year and half i am still able to play (even if my aim suck)

5) How many HA do you see on top of the chart ?  I play every days since the last month and it's not happ ening often on NA1, of course i can gain valour and some other too (lol very few HA are gaining vaor at the end of the round) but like cav we can do it even if we are not in a good team.

6) I am a HA and the class i hate the most is by far archer (Xbower), 2 hits and they kill my horse (not all the time of course), but if my team is good and balanced, i know they will et killed by other archers, the game is design to have a balanced team of all "class" so you can be sucessfull. Often i look at my team and i see only like 3 shielders and the other team have like 4-5 archer.... i know we are doomed. Do i want to nerf them, yea but only because they can counter me easily. Take down your Ego manbe ?

7) i played most of my gen with 18 strengh and a Mw yumi and killing a horse in 2-3 shot even a rouncy isnt possible (ok very rare ?) if it's not a frontal shot. Most of the time it's like 3-5 shots for a courser because i will be from behind even with 7-8 riding

8) Killing a player is ok, but man it take often a lot of arrows, of course not at the end of the round so some time i can kill 2 or 3 players in a row because they are all weak.

9) Yea we are hard to catch but lol man if you thing a cav can be a god and kill all other class you are wrong, like i said i get kill by class often even if i have the anti cav class.

10) Finally people should see the game as a whole and put aside they own interest. I will be honest i saw no valid complain in this post, if you remove my riding skill i will get kill by all cav, if you remove my arrows (if i want bodkin i give up already a lot of arrows), i will be uselless, if you remove HA you do like 2 years ago put cav as god

ok sorry for the bad post, i am losing connection !
 


 

[sdfjkln]

(click to show/hide)

Ok, sorry my english isnt good, but i will try to be clair.
I did like 13 gen as HA and even if i am not  the best one (we all know 2 or 3 HA that are very good) i am decent enough to be representative. My others gen was as archer and i really hated cav that why i went to HA to counter them since they are really strong

1) HA is bad in 30 to 50 % of the map because we have no space to move

2) HA is good against cav and 2 handed (a pole arm who know how to move is still really hard to hit)

3) HA have hard time against a shielder (who know how to play because the bum  shot is really impredicable), agaisnt a good HX and against archer (or u need to have a secondairy weapon).

4) I always  hear cav screaming against HA, but common on, we are there to kill your horse, otherwise you are on rampage and yea any HA will target you because you are a larger target and with your horse you represent point. Even there, a good armored cav can kill me in many map if i dont have the place to move, it's happen often, i always target the best player cav from other team and often i get myself killed because.. They are good. Sometime i kill them, but i mean i am not a STF even if i didnt played for 1 year and half i am still able to play (even if my aim suck)

5) How many HA do you see on top of the chart ?  I play every days since the last month and it's not happ ening often on NA1, of course i can gain valour and some other too (lol very few HA are gaining vaor at the end of the round) but like cav we can do it even if we are not in a good team.

6) I am a HA and the class i hate the most is by far archer (Xbower), 2 hits and they kill my horse (not all the time of course), but if my team is good and balanced, i know they will et killed by other archers, the game is design to have a balanced team of all "class" so you can be sucessfull. Often i look at my team and i see only like 3 shielders and the other team have like 4-5 archer.... i know we are doomed. Do i want to nerf them, yea but only because they can counter me easily. Take down your Ego manbe ?

7) i played most of my gen with 18 strengh and a Mw yumi and killing a horse in 2-3 shot even a rouncy isnt possible (ok very rare ?) if it's not a frontal shot. Most of the time it's like 3-5 shots for a courser because i will be from behind even with 7-8 riding

8) Killing a player is ok, but man it take often a lot of arrows, of course not at the end of the round so some time i can kill 2 or 3 players in a row because they are all weak.

9) Yea we are hard to catch but lol man if you thing a cav can be a god and kill all other class you are wrong, like i said i get kill by class often even if i have the anti cav class.

10) Finally people should see the game as a whole and put aside they own interest. I will be honest i saw no valid complain in this post, if you remove my riding skill i will get kill by all cav, if you remove my arrows (if i want bodkin i give up already a lot of arrows), i will be uselless, if you remove HA you do like 2 years ago put cav as god

ok sorry for the bad post, i am losing connection !
 


 

Undo the HX reload nerf and I'll take care of your HA problem.

[Joseph Porta]

Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.

Give a horseback speed penalty per HA skill point?