Muslims, really?

[Umbra]

The high lord of spam has spoken. Let the shitposting begin.

[Butan]

Just like you can't prove Gandalf doesn't exist. Doesn't mean people go around saying they're "agnostic" on the issue, as in "could be either way." No, they don't believe Gandalf exists, until proven otherwise. Atheists.

If you're talking about the LOTR personage, of course he doesnt exist, he is only on paper.

If you talk about an entity whose name would be Gandalf, and with similar powers as the book personage, yes he could have existed/exist or exist in the future. How can you tell if something doesnt exist if you arent omniscient?


You can only tell that something exist when you saw it, you cant tell something doesnt exist because you didnt see it.
Then you can believe something exist or dont exist, whether you have seen it or not, because belief doesnt require knowledge.



I dont know what is positive/negative atheism, but my point is that someone who seeks the truth doesnt negate a possibility on the basis that there is no proof to support it.
Of course, in our day to day life we are always drawn to making semantic shortcut like "ha! god doesnt exist! take this religious guy!" but we honestly dont have a clue, nor do they.

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In what category does this make me fall ? 

[Xant]

If you're talking about the LOTR personage, of course he doesnt exist, he is only on paper.

If you talk about an entity whose name would be Gandalf, and with similar powers as the book personage, yes he could have existed/exist or exist in the future. How can you tell if something doesnt exist if you arent omniscient?

With the power of logic and vast intelligence.

[Overdriven]

With the power of logic and vast intelligence.

With the power of logic based on your present experiences and current knowledge.

What about someone who may have experienced something 'super natural'. That experience could lend them to believe something and it may not appear logical to those who have not experienced it and it'll be put down by those to something psychological or a host of other 'explanations'.

That's partly why belief can be so personal. As it can be down to your own experiences regardless of what religion you belong to.

Atheists work on the same premise. You use your experiences and logic to determine something doesn't exist. But as there's no factual proof either way it is still a belief.

Atheism isn't a religion. But the distinctions between belief and religion are important and it is still a belief.

[Xant]

Yeah, but Butan was asking how YOU can tell if something doesnt exist if you arent omniscient?

Yep, and I answered him.

[Falka]

You're all morons if you assume you're the smartest most correct people in the world and your beliefs are more valid and intelligent.

Again the same argument: "if you think that your opinion is superior then you're an asshole". Which is pretty fucking stupid. If I'd think that someone else's opinion is better than mine I'd change my mind. Because... why would I claim there's no god if I'd think that those who say god exists are right?    SOunds pretty ridiculous, don't you think? And it's not matter of "liking"; you like gingers, I prefer blondies and both of our opinions are equally valid.

That doesn't mean I consider myself smarter than those who believe in god, just in this particular case I think they're wrong, but in other areas they can be "the smartest most correct people in the world". So don't be so upset.

And yes, atheism is a belief, because you are convinced beyond reasonable curiosity that there is not - and cannot be - a higher power.

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I have never, ever met an atheist who proclaimed that it was completely and utterly impossible for there to exist any kind of a being that would appear godlike to us.

Show me a proof that god exists and I'll admit it.

[[ptx]]

You completely missed the point.

[Joseph Porta]

Snip

I am omniscient and I can confirm that Gandalf exists.

Just saying

Jesus & mohammed don't btw, Sauron told me that in confidence. We used to date and when we would... Nvm, i'm derailing.

[Falka]

Atheists work on the same premise. You use your experiences and logic to determine something doesn't exist. But as there's no factual proof either way it is still a belief.

No, it doesn't work this way, otherwise everything would be a matter of belief. Typical example; do unicorns exist? Well, as there's no proof of their existence I'd say they don't exist, but on the other hand there's also no proof they don't exist so according to your way of thinking the only possible answer is that I believe unicorns don't exist. Sorry, but it makes no sense.

in reality a large number especially in this community spend far too much time caring and thinking and arguing about why Atheism is more intelligent to truly claim they're passive Atheists.

I thought arguing and shitposting is the whole point of this forum, what would I do here if I couldn't argue about whatever pleases me? And ofc we're running in circles, the same shit over and over again, but this discussion was pointless from the beginning so who cares, let's keep arguing.

[Overdriven]

No, it doesn't work this way, otherwise everything would be a matter of belief. Typical example; do unicorns exist? Well, as there's no proof of their existence I'd say they don't exist, but on the other hand there's also no proof they don't exist so according to your way of thinking the only possible answer is that I believe unicorns don't exist. Sorry, but it makes no sense.

Everything that isn't proven by fact is a matter of belief based on your current knowledge and experiences. It's pretty simple. If someone is convinced unicorns exist, aliens, ghosts, whatever. As in they have had some form of experience that they feel 'proves' this for them and there's enough people who think this to make it a reasonable possibility then the only basis for you dismissing their claims is that there is no proof in front of you and based on what you know and what you've experienced yourself, you draw from logic that it is an impossibility, then I'd consider that a belief.

If enough people believe one thing, and you dismiss their claims based on your own knowledge, then you have a firm belief in the quality of your logic and therefore a belief in the counter claim that they don't exist.

Without any form of substantial proof to disprove their claims, it is still an open possibility regardless of how outlandish the claim may be. And the more people that make such a claim, the stronger the possibility as multiple people have experienced something to make them believe in whatever it is.

Arguing otherwise is just being closed minded in my opinion. That's not to say that it does exist, but you should be open to the possibility until proven otherwise.

[[ptx]]

No, it doesn't work this way, otherwise everything would be a matter of belief. Typical example; do unicorns exist? Well, as there's no proof of their existence I'd say they don't exist, but on the other hand there's also no proof they don't exist so according to your way of thinking the only possible answer is that I believe unicorns don't exist. Sorry, but it makes no sense.

No, it makes perfect sense. You can't know something, that you don't have valid proof of, you can only assume and believe.

[Oberyn]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm agnostic. I believe it is possible that there may be some creature, force, etc that is not well understood by humans and would be considered god-like in it's intelligence/power by comparison, somewhere in the universe. If you believe some theorists on the size and distribution of the universe, it is practically a certainty.
However, I am completely convinced that whatever religions humanity has deluded itself with throughout it's existence are nothing more than reflections of our own collective psyche. If there is a "god", or vastly superior being, it is nothing like what any of the Abrahamic books would have us believe. Or any of the thousands of other religions that used to dominate the world for tens of thousands of years before the jewish religion even existed, or the hundreds of others that exist concurently with it, all with deeply contradictory beliefs.
Truth is not a popularity contest. Abrahamic religions are a large portion of believers on the world because of history, because they were inextricably linked to conquest and trade and governance. Like any other religion their primary goal is almost organic, to survive, replicate and spread as far as possible. Organized religions have been around since the dawn of civilization, and probably long before that. They are a survival feature, a more inclusive form of tribalism. Another marker to determine who is friend and foe, who is person and who is unperson. Nothing more than an evolutionary addaptation on the group level. Just because certain of them are more successful than others gives them no inherent truth. If you lived 3000 years ago in, say, a greek city-state, just because everyone else believes in the same cultural myths and legends, would that make them true? After all, their "experiences" all agree. Ergo, they are true? Just switch that for literally every single religion that has ever existed, completely tied to the cultural zeitgeist of it's surroundings, and you start to see how ridiculous the claim is. Belief=/=reality, no matter how much you think it should.

[Xant]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm agnostic. I believe it is possible that there may be some creature, force, etc that is not well understood by humans and would be considered god-like in it's intelligence/power by comparison, somewhere in the universe. If you believe some theorists on the size and distribution of the universe, it is practically a certainty.
However, I am completely convinced that whatever religions humanity has deluded itself with throughout it's existence are nothing more than reflections of our own collective psyche. If there is a "god", or vastly superior being, it is nothing like what any of the Abrahamic books would have us believe. Or any of the thousands of other religions that used to dominate the world for tens of thousands of years before the jewish religion even existed, or the hundreds of others that exist concurently with it, all with deeply contradictory beliefs.
Truth is not a popularity contest. Abrahamic religions are a large portion of believers on the world because of history, because they were inextricably linked to conquest and trade and governance. Like any other religion their primary goal is almost organic, to survive, replicate and spread as far as possible. Organized religions have been around since the dawn of civilization, and probably long before that. They are a survival feature, a more inclusive form of tribalism. Another marker to determine who is friend and foe, who is person and who is unperson. Nothing more than an evolutionary addaptation on the group level. Just because certain of them are more successful than others gives them no inherent truth. If you lived 3000 years ago in, say, a greek city-state, just because everyone else believes in the same cultural myths and legends, would that make them true? After all, their "experiences" all agree. Ergo, they are true? Just switch that for literally every single religion that has ever existed, completely tied to the cultural zeitgeist of it's surroundings, and you start to see how ridiculous the claim is. Belief=/=reality, no matter how much you think it should.

What you "are" depends on the semantics. You'd fit just as well under some, if not most, of the atheism labels. The vast majority of atheists have the same exact position as you.

[Thryn]

do unicorns exist? Well, as there's no proof of their existence I'd say they don't exist, but on the other hand there's also no proof they don't exist

AHEM.
North Korean Unicorn Lair

[Oberyn]

there is no certainty is science, never think that there is.

That's its strength. Every rule and "certainty" in science is always provisional, and more importantly must be reproducible. It must be an "experience" that ANYONE can reproduce, objectively, regardless of something as vague and individualistic as "belief". Find me a religion in which that "experience" exists and is quantifiable, and I'll suddenly be religious.