US cops always worth a laugh

[Jeade]

Really its fucking frustrating. Also I'm an anti-gun progressive and I'm wanting to buy a handgun myself because most American cities are so shitty and overrun with violence and crime, you start to feel like you need a gun just to protect yourself. I just don't want crazies or criminals with guns.. which leads to every local small town police force having AFV's, M4's, body armor, drones, broad wiretapping.. then you run the chance of being murdered by a gangbanger, methhead, or a cop who assumes you are one of those and opens fire.. ugh

Holy fuck, did I just agree with Smoothrich?

Spot on, man. I own a few myself, but California isn't very friendly to carriers.
Strongly considering bringing a pistol back from the far-more-tolerant Missouri just to keep in the house.

About the whole "slippery slope" thing, it drives me insane.
Maybe I just attract the crazy people, but everyone I know who is "pro-gun" seem to be the people who think background checks will spiral the country into N.azi Germany.
The other people I know who proudly open carry are the rowdy vigilante type.

Egh.

[Xant]

(which says "well-regulated" right in it lol)

Yes, just like Lord of the Rings says "einstein is God" if you take letters out of context. The well regulated part is about a militia, and after it comes the important part:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated means "disciplined" or "trained."

[Nightmare798]

Guns go bang.  I like bang.

This pretty much sums up gun ownership I think.

[Oberyn]

Really its fucking frustrating. Also I'm an anti-gun progressive and I'm wanting to buy a handgun myself because most American cities are so shitty and overrun with violence and crime, you start to feel like you need a gun just to protect yourself. I just don't want crazies or criminals with guns.. which leads to every local small town police force having AFV's, M4's, body armor, drones, broad wiretapping.. then you run the chance of being murdered by a gangbanger, methhead, or a cop who assumes you are one of those and opens fire.. ugh

Yeah that's the real crux of the issue, the increasing militarization of police forces didn't happen in a vacuum. When stuff like the North Hollywood shoutout happened, police weren't equipped to respond to it. I can understand why certain departments try so hard to instill a sense of complete paranoia and disproportionate response in their trainees. Because it's their lives that are on the line. Unfortunately when you treat civilians as potential death threats at the slightest provocation you start blurring the line between police and military occupation force.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Put them all in jail. What a fucking joke.

In Brisbane last year a guy was walking around a mall in the centre of the city with a hand gun. About 15k people were in the area at the time. The police disarmed him with out any shots fired, or pepper spray, or tasers. They just talked him down over like two hours.

This Miami shit is fucking horrific.

[Oberyn]

Yes, just like Lord of the Rings says "einstein is God" if you take letters out of context. The well regulated part is about a militia, and after it comes the important part:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated means "disciplined" or "trained."

I've always interpreted that as the right to bear and keep arms being contingent on the context of a militia. i.e that the important part of the amendment was that gun ownership is necessary only insofar as it leads to the maintenance of a well-regulated militia for the defense of the state, not because Average Joe has the inalienable god-given right to go out in the desert to shoot at car wrecks with his buddies while drinking a sixpack. As far as I see it as soon as the US started mantaining a standing army the entire point of the second amendment became moot.

[Kafein]

I've always interpreted that as the right to bear and keep arms being contingent on the context of a militia. i.e that the important part of the amendment was that gun ownership is necessary only insofar as it leads to the maintenance of a well-regulated militia for the defense of the state, not because Average Joe has the inalienable god-given right to go out in the desert to shoot at car wrecks with his buddies while drinking a sixpack. As far as I see it as soon as the US started mantaining a standing army the entire point of the second amendment became moot.

They would tell you that the point of the second amendment became clear when the US started mantaining a standing army.

[Oberyn]

And that it obviously failed spectacularly, if it was supposed to prevent the creation of a standing army. Could it possibly be the Founding Fathers were not angels filled with divine enlightenment, but just faillable men? GASP

[Kafein]

And that it obviously failed spectacularly, if it was supposed to prevent the creation of a standing army. Could it possibly be the Founding Fathers were not angels filled with divine enlightenment, but just faillable men? GASP

Preposterous ! Such father figures, literally engraved in the rock of our minds, are above all errors and anachronisms.

Also I don't think it was supposed to prevent a standing army, but rather to maintain "the people" able to take arms against the army. In context, a standing army would be considered occupation more than anything, even if called American.

[Butan]

The 2nd amendment was not made to prevent a state army from being created, but to have a ready force to fight against the state, putting power into the hands of the common man.

Anti-gun and pro-gun lobbies both use fail arguments :
guns = people die so ban
no guns = dictatorship so dont regulate

Both try to make the US people believe in a scenario that isnt going to happen : having the right to bear arms doesnt mean everyone kill each other all the time at the slightest whim; nor if we regulate the right to bear arms it will instantly create a fondation for a fascist government.


As long as there is a possibility for the lawful citizens to buy and own guns, there will be a sizeable force ready to take arms if the state is in danger from within or without.

[Xant]

I've always interpreted that as the right to bear and keep arms being contingent on the context of a militia. i.e that the important part of the amendment was that gun ownership is necessary only insofar as it leads to the maintenance of a well-regulated militia for the defense of the state, not because Average Joe has the inalienable god-given right to go out in the desert to shoot at car wrecks with his buddies while drinking a sixpack. As far as I see it as soon as the US started mantaining a standing army the entire point of the second amendment became moot.

That's not US's Supreme Court's interpretation, though.

[Butan]

A constitution is a general approach of how the country works. Laws are where you can tinker with firearm availability. Even in countries where there is no such amendment, there has been mass murders, there is no fail-safe way to avoid them, even if guns are banned and there is only a battered black market available.

Also take into account the fact that the existing ready militia is a deterrent, not only an active tool.

[Lt_Anders]

In that case consider the lack of guns in the UK as a deterrent too, cos i wouldnt consider our government to be more tyrannical or freedom-hating than your average.

And saying 'We cant 100% stop murder so why even bother?' i mean.... wut? Crime is a numbers game and making your country as safe as possible should be a goal everyone shares. If guns are publicly available then a lot of people die, that isn't theoretical it's gun-crime statistics.

In the UK you can't just go and buy a gun cos you've had a bad day. They're still probably available on the black market, but that already rules out a large % of potential buyers. In theory you could still be shot by someone who got a gun illegally in the UK, in reality it doesnt really happen and you're probably in more danger of strangling yourself putting your socks on. The worst we get are shotguns that farmers own, weapons that are kinda hard to conceal.

If i had kids in the US i'd wanna homeschool them, on the offchance that some deranged retard decides to go have a shooting spree, killed by a sweaty nerd is the least dignified way to go (Yes, know i know, it COULD happen anywhere, but newflash it DOESNT happen anywhere else, only in that dirtbag country). Then put up with the insult of having the outraged country demand more guns to make 'murrica safer. I like Americans, it's a shame they care more about a constitution than they do about their own lives and the lives of their families.

The majority of kills come from the semi-auto handguns. Rifles and shotguns are not the main contributors of the problem. I'd also say that school shootings have only become more popular due to Columbine and the way the Media handles it. These creeps subconsciously know that this is an act that will put them on the news as villains for may days and thus do it.

[Lt_Anders]

The media is responsible too, there's no doubt of that. And saying it's just guns would be oversimplifying it, but the fact remains that it wouldnt be possible if guns were controlled better.

Again, there's no easy solution cos there are already so many in circulation. If you were starting again from scratch it would be simpler.

Know how many "school massacres" we had before 1990? 0. But after the "Columbine Massacre" we have had 5 "Massacres" since then. (though it looks like there has been)

Also, not very sure of the validity but:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund

Apparently both Germany and Great Britain have(had actually) the worst Elementry school shootings. Only Newton beat those. Actually, the Newtown shooting was a case  of the gun control laws working as intended. The mother was a  Proper and safe gun owner. The Gun store refused to sell the gun citing bad history and some mental isssues. The problem was that the mother doesn't expect her own son to kill her and then do that and that is a fault of mental illness.

[Xant]

Copycats are a massive problem. We had two school shootings within a year of each other, after never having any real ones before.