Future fashion

[Kafein]

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/russian-scientists-discover-cure-to-homosexuality/

I'm no biologist, but they may have a point about estrogen mimickers having some effect.

[Leshma]

I'm no biologist, but they may have a point about estrogen mimickers having some effect.

Implying that sexual preference has something to do with biology...

Being fat is, except in a few very rare cases, a choice - and unhealthy one at that. Does not compare with sexuality at all.

Find me a proof that people are born straight or gay.

[Kafein]

Implying that sexual preference has something to do with biology...

It has to do with psychology, which is just a byproduct of this wonderful biological thing which is the brain.

[Leshma]

Won't be go deeper into that subject, just will say this: in few decades when we find commercially viable way to reproduce artificially there will be another sexual revolution. Humanists will say that people will start to freely choose who they want to have intercourse with, because there will be no stigma attached to it. But from evolutionary standpoint, sex will probably suffer as an activity and greatly lose popularity. Sex has always been and still is overrated activity and that is justified by importance it has in prolonging our specie. When that stops being the case, things will change.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

I doubt it that sex would be killed by artificial reproduction. I think it would be killed by safe permanent libido inhibiting contraceptives with no side effects.

[Leshma]

Also another thing, trying to sell freedom based on specific cases (such is freedom of gays or freedom of black people) won't go very well everywhere. Because some nations have no experience with many events that led to current state (f.e. Russians don't get whole black slavery thing because they weren't holding black slaves like Americans did).

If you want to sell freedom, you need to define it universally (as an ideology). You can easily explain gay rights to Russian if you explain it as part of something bigger that has correlation with some ideas they are familiar with. Although communism they know of has many faults, it is still based on Utopian ideas first presented by Thomas More.

Russians and Americans are like two kids, they are jelly of each other. Russians don't like things that originated in USA because they weren't the first to "invent" it. It takes different approach and a compromise.

In other words, model that worked for gays in USA won't work for gays in Russia.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Surely that was a bandwagon everyone has been on for centuries until the 60s onwards?

[Kafein]

Surely that was a bandwagon everyone has been on for centuries until the 60s onwards?

I'm not too sure about that to be honest.

Homosexuality started being a real issue for the conservatives when the liberals started pushing things forward. It became an ideological battleground just like so many things before. Hence the atmosphere was not tolerant but certainly more relaxed on that particular issue before the sixties.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggery_Act_1533

Don't know about other countries, but classing homosexuality on the same level as bestiality doesn't really look like tolerance to me.

[Kafein]

English law on homosexuality pushed their greatest mind of the 20th century to commit suicide, but it was still fine in the 50s.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

His suicide was in the 50s.

[Kafein]

His suicide was in the 50s.

Yes, and it didn't attract much public outrage against the law.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Ah I misread you. We are agreeing that things were shitty before the 60s. So yes things were more relaxed, but not to say that homosexuals had an easier time.
Edit: they just had less options.

[Leshma]

You're implying that the amount of homosexuality is increasing as a %, that would be impossible to prove.

Some "fake" it because it can help them in professional careerer. Gays, just like any smaller interest group that has been pushed away by majority, tend to stick together and work harder.

Not sure are gays growing in numbers, don't find any relevance in that. Bringing whole matter to biological level is silly, but both sides (homophobes and gays) are using that as a weapon to achieve their goals.

Now you can say it is impossible to change sexual preference or fake it but I disagree. Sexual preference change over time. You might not become bisexual but that's mostly because you're too afraid to even give it a try, not because you're born straight. You're afraid how other will judge you. But when it comes to straight, which is socially acceptable on almost all levels, you change preference all the time. As younger guy you might be into one type of women, later in completely different type. They are not all the same. It's not different as having sex with another gender, but there are differences. Sex has two key components and physical contact and the way how you do it is just one part. The other is attraction and what we call chemistry.

Women are different than men when it comes to this, they like to experiment a lot more. Many women are bisexual and don't find it strange to be with another women. Men are a bit stuck up when it comes to that but I don't blame them. After all, men are the uglier and less desirable gender.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Also why portray the situation as a binary power struggle? It's a bit more intricate than that.