Weird build - Xbow, HX, Lancer

[Mallets]

Ok... so my 4th character is an archer.  And boy does she suck!  Ok, ok... I suck!  It's so hard for me to hit anything with a bow.  And while spamming arrows down range, I'm really afraid to hit teammates... so I often just don't shoot.

This 4th character doesn't really matter that much to me, since she's never been fun (plus I have a 2h, 1h-Shielder, & a Hoplite-Thrower... all of which I enjoy).  So I thought, let me respec my Archer to an Xbow.  I'm currently lvl 25, and will respec to 21.  With this being my fourth character and not one of my mains, I thought I'd experiment some.

So the main thing I want to accomplish is efficiency and power with a Xbow on the ground.  But I also don't have a Cav character either.  So I thought, let try to mix that in.  So I'm going for a ground based X-bowman and a Lancer Cav.  But since I'm combined these two... I figured, why not be able to do some Horse X-bow as well.

So I have a few questions to ask.  Sorry... I'm sure they've all been asked before.  Will try to keep the questions clean and simple (and numbered), to make it easy for you guys to answer.


1)  Arbalest or Heavy Xbow?  Is it really all about preference?  I'm sure the extra AGI would help with Riding... but I don't plan on having an expensive horse.  But maybe I need it for WM & WPF?

2)  Do you need Horse Archery to be more accurate with an Xbow on horseback?  How much does it really matter?

3)  Do you need WPF and/or PS in Polearms to get good couch damage from horseback?  More WPF in Xbow, the better.  Want to know if Polearms need any WPF.

4)  How viable is the Double-Sided Lance for a couching weapon?  I know it's short.  But you can sheath it, which will allow me to to use a Hunting Xbow, while still having it equipped.  If not, I can equip proper lances when I want to Cav, and just go HX when I want.  Plus I'll play a lot on the ground.


Again... my main objectives with this build is to be good at ground-based Xbow... and to be decent at Cav Lancer.  This combo should then also allow me to do a little Horse Xbow.  And this is not meant to be some max awesome build.  Just a fun character to mix things up with.  And hopefully will be more fun than my Archer.

Any advice would be welcome and appreciated!  See the builds below, to give you an idea of what I'm thinking.

(click to show/hide)

Level: 30

Str:  18
Agi:  18

IF:    5
PS:   6
Ath:  6
Rid:  6
WM: 6

All WPF will all be in Xbow, unless some is need in Polearms.  This is taking into account I don't need Horse Archery.  If so, sacrifice IF.  Ride a Courser... I guess.  Is there a better options?

(click to show/hide)

Level: 21

Str:  18
Agi:  9

IF:    5
PS:   6
Ath:  3
Rid:  3
WM: 3

Can use Arbalest.  Can ride a Rouncey.  But 15/12 maybe better at lvl 21.  Just really like the idea of max 1-shot damage with the Arbalest.

[the real god emperor]

On the ground I'd say arbalest since you re thinking to use an 18-18 build. Missile speed is as important as damage in crossbows.
Yes, you need horse archery to use crossbows on horseback, but its not "mandatory" cus I ve seen people doing good with a crossbow on horseback without having horse archery, it will only effect your accuracy, nothing to do with the damage.
You can use a Great Lance with 1 wpf without having any problems, but other poles will be harder to use like that.And no, Double sided lance is shit, its shit on horseback, its shit on ground, its shit on anywhere. Do not use it. Please. Alas, couching damage is nerfed and based on the speed bonus more than your damage you may want to try out non couchable polearms as alternatives such as war spear, battle fork etc. (you won't be couching anyone with double sided lance anyway)

But my opinion is ; I think you should have some more spare time for cRPG and grind 2 chars

I hope that helps.

[Tojo]

Can only reload hunting xbow on horseback.

IMO the build you are trying to do will leave you much weaker than everyone else.

I would go hxbow and just use a 1 hander when you run out of bolts.

[WITCHCRAFT]

Ranged cavalry requires more stat investment than any other single-weapon build. The horse archery skill isn't required since you can ride by to fire at melee range (similar to riding by and lancing or couching your target). However, if you try your aim with a skip-the-fun character between 0 and 3 horse archery you'll see the huge difference it makes. On top of riding and HA you want as much WM as you can fit into your build. Reloading on horseback is many times slower than on foot, so improved reload speed is crucial.

As someone else stated, couching a lance doesn't require any wpf investment. You could pull out a great lance on maps where cav has lots of room to horse around ( ), then switch to HX or infantry xbow on more confined maps.

I would aim for heavy xbow on foot, since compared to arb you can save 3 points of str to invest in your HX skills. As long as you wear light armor and have your crazy high xbow proficiency (since you are also HX) then a cautious sniper play style should work fine. Don't expect to kill anyone but peasants if you engage in melee. I'll post my suggested build when I'm on my desktop and can format it properly.

[Sari]

(click to show/hide)

----level 32 build hoplite/xbow/Hx-----

Strength:21
Agility:18

Polearm:152
Crossbow:51

Weapon master:6
Athletics:6
Riding:5
Iron Flesh:0
Shield:4
Horse Archery:1
Power Strike:7
Power Draw:0
Power Throw:0

I got this build from a friend, even though it said hoplite doesn't mean you can't be a lancer.

[WITCHCRAFT]

Here's my suggested level 30 build:

15 STR
21 DEX

7 Riding
3 Horse Archery
7 Weapons Master
5 Power Strike
7 Athletics

150 crossbow
84 one handed or polearm

You will be a glass cannon as both HX and infantry xbow with this build, but both classes can avoid direct combat so having a giant pool of HP isn't as important. On horseback you can easily back out of combat if needed, and other ranged will have difficulty shooting you unless you ride in a straight line or otherwise "give them" the shot. On foot, you want to find a secluded corner to pop out from and fire. Back around the corner to reload, or retreat if someone is closing in on your position.

You could easily drop some of the athletics for ironflesh and still be plenty fast on foot. Personally, I prefer to go for full speed as a crossbowman. Even if they have a 100% chance to beat you in melee combat, most players will give up the chase if you just keep running until you find a spot to reload. Xbow/melee hybrid works well as a class, but there's no room for a full set of melee skills when you are already a HX in addition to infantry xbow.

My reasoning on the wpf split is this: 150 is enough for HX or for dedicated infantry xbow. A little low In both cases, but enough to get the job done and still have some wpf left over. Personally, I would get 1H wpf and carry a dagger, pierce/blunt swing, or stabby low-cost 1H weapon at all times. If you get dehorsed, it gives you a last chance to fight back. On foot you want to avoid melee but 5 PS and a fast weapon will work if you get cornered. For lancing I prefer to just couch with a great lance when it's a good cav map. You can go pole WPF instead of 1H if you want to use light/regular/heavy lance on horseback. As infantry, I really enjoy using a quarterstaff as backup for my xbow. Cheap, fast, knockdown, and it has good reach as well. Shortened spear/spear/boar spear are viable as well if you want a pokey pole weapon, but the quarterstaff is just the bee's knees. 

18/18 could work, but you will have less wpf left over for 1H or pole. You will also lose the ability to ride the arabian. It's my favorite for ranged cav, and the first choice for many regular HA/HX players. Try stuff out on STF and see what feels right for you.

[Mallets]

Thanks for all the advice folks!  Much appreciated.  The best advice I got is below,

But my opinion is ; I think you should have some more spare time for cRPG and grind 2 chars

Hahahaha!  Too true!

I got play around with this build at lvl 21 (build posted in the OP).  So far, here's my view on the 3 aspects of this build:  ground Xbow, Horse Xbow, & Cav Lancer.

Really enjoying the Arbalest on the ground.  1-shots are just awesome!  Certainly liking Xbow over Archery!

As for HX-ing... in my mind, it never really appealed to me.  Just thought since I was trying to blend ground Xbow & Cav Lancer, it would be available to me if I so choose.  And my thoughts were confirmed.  The 2 or 3 rounds that I was an HX... I didn't enjoy it.  Not my style.  So I'm basically looking to scratch this... meaning no Horse Archery need for this build.

As for Cav Lancer... damn, it's harder than it looks.  Mind you, I only have 3 Riding... so I have a Rouncey.  Everyone else with 5 or 6 or more Riding, with better horses are destroying me.  Haven't tried any 1h or 2h combat from horseback.  May have to give it a try.  But can't really get the true feel of how effective I could be, without a better horse and more Riding.


All that to say... Kratos is basically right in that I really should have two different builds.  If I was level 30, it probably wouldn't be an issue.  But on the way to level 30, the Arbalest needs 18 Str... while a Cav needs at least 18 Agi for Riding.  Can't do both until lvl 30 (or there about).  But I really don't feel like having to level up a whole new character to accommodate two different builds.  And honestly, a STF character would be great for Cav... so I don't have to grind towards high enough Agi.  But my STF is already in use with my Hoplite/Thrower... my favorite build.  Can't get rid of him!

Gonna stick with this build until lvl 30.  See what Cav is like then, with 6 Riding.  If really like Cav, then maybe I'll stick with the build.  If not, then I'll respec to max my Arbalest's effectiveness.

Thanks, again guys!

[Sandersson Jankins]

Thanks for all the advice folks!  Much appreciated.  The best advice I got is below,

Hahahaha!  Too true!

I got play around with this build at lvl 21 (build posted in the OP).  So far, here's my view on the 3 aspects of this build:  ground Xbow, Horse Xbow, & Cav Lancer.

Really enjoying the Arbalest on the ground.  1-shots are just awesome!  Certainly liking Xbow over Archery!

As for HX-ing... in my mind, it never really appealed to me.  Just thought since I was trying to blend ground Xbow & Cav Lancer, it would be available to me if I so choose.  And my thoughts were confirmed.  The 2 or 3 rounds that I was an HX... I didn't enjoy it.  Not my style.  So I'm basically looking to scratch this... meaning no Horse Archery need for this build.

As for Cav Lancer... damn, it's harder than it looks.  Mind you, I only have 3 Riding... so I have a Rouncey.  Everyone else with 5 or 6 or more Riding, with better horses are destroying me.  Haven't tried any 1h or 2h combat from horseback.  May have to give it a try.  But can't really get the true feel of how effective I could be, without a better horse and more Riding.


All that to say... Kratos is basically right in that I really should have two different builds.  If I was level 30, it probably wouldn't be an issue.  But on the way to level 30, the Arbalest needs 18 Str... while a Cav needs at least 18 Agi for Riding.  Can't do both until lvl 30 (or there about).  But I really don't feel like having to level up a whole new character to accommodate two different builds.  And honestly, a STF character would be great for Cav... so I don't have to grind towards high enough Agi.  But my STF is already in use with my Hoplite/Thrower... my favorite build.  Can't get rid of him!

Gonna stick with this build until lvl 30.  See what Cav is like then, with 6 Riding.  If really like Cav, then maybe I'll stick with the build.  If not, then I'll respec to max my Arbalest's effectiveness.

Thanks, again guys!

A thing you should realize about cavalry is that if an enemy cavalry player has 5 or more riding, a loomed horse, or most likely both, they will have a very large inherent advantage over you that you'll be unlikely to overcome through skill, at least at first. If you've got 5 or more riding and an unloomed horse, you're still at a disadvantage to many cavalry players, but you can probably overcome it with skill much easier.

Basically, heirloomed weapons are not very important to melee or cav. Loomed armour is, of course, very useful with any class. Still, horses are one of the most powerful items to heirloom.

So, if you've only got 3 riding you can probably make the most use of it by acting as a sort of dragoon; carry a heavy crossbow or arbalest and some 1-slot weapon (maybe the Spear, you can still play cav with it if you practice). You can ride around and as long as you come to a complete stop with the arbalest, you can fire it mounted. To reload, you must dismount, but you can run away on your horse and get to a safe place to do so. It's an interesting fun little playstyle, I've seen a couple of people use it.

[Mallets]

Thanks for the input Sandersson!

I actually played a little more HX last night.  Wasn't as bad as the night before.  Learned the ropes.  Still not really my style.  Don't feel in the action, running down over Cav and trying to shoot them in the back.  Just think Infantry battles are more fun.

Tried to lance a little more.  Damn, it's tough!  Really need two dedicated builds (between Infantry & Cav).

Going to have to go with 2 separate builds.  An Arbalest and a Cav Lancer (who can also do a little HX).

Thanks for the input guys!

[jtobiasm]

I'm currently lvl 25

There's your problem brah, archery doesn't get effective till you get 6 PD and 170ish wpf. So level 27+.

If you change your mind and still want to be an archer, check stevees guide or if you want to ask some questions PM me on here.

[Smoothrich]

Thanks for the input Sandersson!

I actually played a little more HX last night.  Wasn't as bad as the night before.  Learned the ropes.  Still not really my style.  Don't feel in the action, running down over Cav and trying to shoot them in the back.  Just think Infantry battles are more fun.

Tried to lance a little more.  Damn, it's tough!  Really need two dedicated builds (between Infantry & Cav).

Going to have to go with 2 separate builds.  An Arbalest and a Cav Lancer (who can also do a little HX).

Thanks for the input guys!

You need to use a fast, agile horse like Desert or Arabian horse as HX, and play like a colossal dick. Find good camping spots behind enemy ranged and place accurate fire at them as they reload, as soon as you are spotted W key zig zag away so they can never counter fire. Find isolated melee skirmishes and bump teammates the enemy over and over again. Learn Top Gear fighter pilot 360 degree awareness as any cavalry class and see an entire battlefield open for griefing, with an ability to avoid anyone remotely skilled who can hurt you. Avoid all enemy cav and ranged, and only backstab people already fighting or peasants.

Also you can hybrid melee and horse ranged, but its only decent higher levels if you are going for 7 riding 4 HA (ideal HX/HA stats). If you just want a fun and playable level 30 build that accomplishes your original goal, try this on a STF. Use a Desert Horse for agility or Destrier for durability.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 57
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 2
Power Strike: 6
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 3
Weapon Master: 6
Polearm: 90
Crossbow: 140

[Mallets]

You need to use a fast, agile horse like Desert or Arabian horse as HX, and play like a colossal dick. Find good camping spots behind enemy ranged and place accurate fire at them as they reload, as soon as you are spotted W key zig zag away so they can never counter fire. Find isolated melee skirmishes and bump teammates the enemy over and over again. Learn Top Gear fighter pilot 360 degree awareness as any cavalry class and see an entire battlefield open for griefing, with an ability to avoid anyone remotely skilled who can hurt you. Avoid all enemy cav and ranged, and only backstab people already fighting or peasants.

Hahahahaha!  That entire description is awesome!  So one must truly "play like a colossal dick" to be successful!  Ha!  Thanks for the advice!

There's your problem brah, archery doesn't get effective till you get 6 PD and 170ish wpf. So level 27+.

If you change your mind and still want to be an archer, check stevees guide or if you want to ask some questions PM me on here.

Thanks for the advice!  Enjoying Arbalest too much right now!  But maybe down the road, I'll have to revisit Archery.  Maybe with a STF to finally see what a high-end Archer would play like.