Agi

[SMEGMAR]

I think the consequential nerf to strength from the agi buff would have been enough.
But NOOOOOOOO they just had to shit on the WPP of solid builds like 24/15, etc.

[Smoothrich]

I think the consequential nerf to strength from the agi buff would have been enough.
But NOOOOOOOO they just had to shit on the WPP of solid builds like 24/15, etc.

I hybrid 136 WPF in 2hand and 107 in polearms with 6 WM, you can do basically the same with 5 WM. Pure build would have 150+ WPF in either WM level. This is actually better then it used to be for those AGI levels by a little bit, if I remember. Don't really see the problem, unless you are not investing in Weapon Master, which was the point of the change.

Even still you only need 3 WM to be effective in a single class, instead of not needing any (which was dumb and abused.)

[Panos_]

Strength has been neglected by devs, causing the mod to be a no skill spam fest, IMO in order to balance things a bit, Strength as a skill needs a buff.

Power Strike should give +10% damage instead of 8%
Armour difficulty needs to be increased, thus rewarding people who choose STR over agility

It`s really a pain in the ass seeing all those longsword spammers, with 15/27 build to be able to dance, spam AND be tanky because of plate armour.

[Strudog]

Strength has been neglected by devs, causing the mod to be a no skill spam fest, IMO in order to balance things a bit, Strength as a skill needs a buff.

Power Strike should give +10% damage instead of 8%
Armour difficulty needs to be increased, thus rewarding people who choose STR over agility

It`s really a pain in the ass seeing all those longsword spammers, with 15/27 build to be able to dance, spam AND be tanky because of plate armour.

you will be surprised that most longsword spammer in EU have 27/15 builds

[Panos_]

Nerfing longsword is a must.

[Kirman]

I really wonder what would happen if they nerf backwards speed 

I still defend the nerf of backwards speed instead of a specific weapon.

[San]

In the past at level 34, 8WM still gave you 175wpf and 9WM gave you 183wpf. Agi was still great back then, but the bonus from WM was poor.

I think a problem that's larger than preventing agi builds access to the highest end armour is the fact that you can easily get 50-60+ armour off of equipment that should be very light. My 15 strength build uses what I consider light armour with mail mittens and a druzhina mail shirt, and even just that amounts to 50 armour total. I find that more broken than being able to wear coat of plates or heraldic transitional (even though that's a part of the problem, too). Increasing armour difficulty is a small part of multiple changes that should be done. Increasing armour difficulties by itself isn't really going to do anything except force people to switch to the lighter equally viable equipment.

Armour would be in a nice spot if gloves didn't give so much; they should increase attack power instead. Armour should scale to 27-30 strength, even though I know many will disagree. I may have the minority opinion on this next part, too, but I think IF should scale better while penalizing 0IF (could also work indirectly with the lowering of armour). Strength only has PS and partially IF that can even be ignored, while agi has both WM and athletics (which both also help increase damage) at full utility. WM used to be just as bad as IF, but now IF has some catching up to do.

[SP1N]

(click to show/hide)

In the past at level 34, 8WM still gave you 175wpf and 9WM gave you 183wpf. Agi was still great back then, but the bonus from WM was poor.

I think a problem that's larger than preventing agi builds access to the highest end armour is the fact that you can easily get 50-60+ armour off of equipment that should be very light. My 15 strength build uses what I consider light armour with mail mittens and a druzhina mail shirt, and even just that amounts to 50 armour total. I find that more broken than being able to wear coat of plates or heraldic transitional (even though that's a part of the problem, too). Increasing armour difficulty is a small part of multiple changes that should be done. Increasing armour difficulties by itself isn't really going to do anything except force people to switch to the lighter equally viable equipment.

Armour would be in a nice spot if gloves didn't give so much; they should increase attack power instead. Armour should scale to 27-30 strength, even though I know many will disagree. I may have the minority opinion on this next part, too, but I think IF should scale better while penalizing 0IF (could also work indirectly with the lowering of armour). Strength only has PS and partially IF that can even be ignored, while agi has both WM and athletics (which both also help increase damage) at full utility. WM used to be just as bad as IF, but now IF has some catching up to do.

San, I can't express how happy I am to see this post. I have yet to hear a bad idea from you and I hope this in particular is heard and works its way into the game.

I have a loomed mail shirt with fur and leather gloves and I get 46 body armor from gear that's only 8.7 weight and costs less to repair than a "Sword". I agree the higher tier armors should be scaled up to 27, if not 30, strength to wear (So a Light Kuyak would be around a 15-18 Strength requirement) but the armors also need to be scaled down in numbers. Gloves are a different story, and though I believe they give WAY too much body armor I'm not sure what should be done other than scaling those down as well.

[Panos_]

Also it is worthy of mentioning, that a buff to STR combined with a nerf to armours/gloves, will make the  mod A) Faster and B) More challenging because there won`t be rooms for a second mistake.

[Gurnisson]

Buff strength, what a plan. It's not like that strength was brutally overpowered compared to agility before. Oh wait.. Now they're fairly even at least, they both excel in different roles and with different types of gear.

[Johammeth]

Dissenting opinion:
The large reason for cRPG's current speedy-state is that the "X got buffed so Y is trash" mentality combined with a free respec sent the community into an agility tailspin.

STR isn't nearly as bad as everyone says; We just need more buff dudes with mauls to knock some sense into us.

[Panos_]

Buff strength, what a plan. It's not like that strength was brutally overpowered compared to agility before. Oh wait.. Now they're fairly even at least, they both excel in different roles and with different types of gear.

STR was never overpowered, sure there were some players out there who were great with their STR builds (Butan, Vex etc etc), but in overall, STR was never above Agility.

They both excel in different roles? Yeah right, the agility builds are the heroes of the battlefield, while the 0WPF  ALMOST EXTINCT "tanks", are just there for us to farm easy valour.


C-rpg, the paradise of spam and s keying...pff

[Tojo]

I think the different play styles between NA and EU are also a factor. I read a lot of threads where a particular region is complaining about the majority of their players using a certain weapon.

[Gurnisson]

STR was never overpowered, sure there were some players out there who were great with their STR builds (Butan, Vex etc etc), but in overall, STR was never above Agility.

They both excel in different roles? Yeah right, the agility builds are the heroes of the battlefield, while the 0WPF  ALMOST EXTINCT "tanks", are just there for us to farm easy valour.

<-- Previously a 30/9 and 27/12 polearmer. Before the change to WM, strength builds were ridiculously strong, a lot better than agility builds. You don't have to go XX/3, you know, since I see you complaining about 0 wpf. Everything from 12 to 18 agi with the rest in strength is still great infantry builds. Much like you need at least 12 strength to be relatively useful as an agiwhore as well.

[Panos_]

<-- Previously a 30/9 and 27/12 polearmer. Before the change to WM, strength builds were ridiculously strong, a lot better than agility builds. You don't have to go XX/3, you know, since I see you complaining about 0 wpf. Everything from 12 to 18 agi with the rest in strength is still great infantry builds. Much like you need at least 12 strength to be relatively useful as an agiwhore as well.

Do you remember rondel dagger my old friends before the nerf?

Imagine a full STR build with a rondel dagger