Author Topic: 0.3.3.5  (Read 29404 times)

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Offline F i n

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #165 on: April 14, 2014, 03:33:33 pm »
+4
or some info on battlegrounds the game your community payed for

--> visible for those who actually payed for it.
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Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #166 on: April 14, 2014, 04:01:31 pm »
+1
what a shock more weapon nerfs

Were's the new game type
or some info on battlegrounds the game your community payed for

Invested. We know they work hard on it and we are waiting, we didnt buy a can of coke at the supermarket, we hope (and trust) that the outcome will be good and fun.

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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #167 on: April 14, 2014, 06:13:33 pm »
-1
Pure throwers should be a gimped build.  Throwing should be a hybrid build for infantry, and it should be more used than it currently is for infantry builds.  IMO it's pretty bullshit the amount of damage a throwing weapon does.  Throwing a spear is not going to give any more damage than using your body to thrust a spear.  In both instances you use your body's kinetic energy to propel an object forward, but when you are still holding on to it, you can keep thrusting forward after impact (thrust through the object, same principle when you throw a punch or kick, you should be punching "Through" the person, not stopping when you hit them).  But in c-rpg, throwing does way more damage than using a melee weapon, which is wrong.

I think throwers are too strong because balancers are trying to balance them as a complete build (pure thrower) rather than balancing them as a hybrid build that softens up enemy infantry, or can take out horses, before they engage with their primary melee capabilities. 
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #168 on: April 14, 2014, 07:04:28 pm »
+1
I wholeheartedly agree with every bit of logic in here, but if they were to make the damage realistic relative to melee, then they should make the requirements more realistic also. Remove throwing requirements or at least soften them if you're gonna reduce the damage, since it takes so many darn skill-points and there are so few 'good' throwing builds, anyone using it is gimped in melee.

If you want realistic throwing damage, give it realistic requirements so that everyone can lob their spears in a sporadic manner to soften enemy ranks before battle.


Yeah I didn't state that, but I 100% agree as well.  As much as it would fuck me over on my light horse, I think that every melee player should pretty much be able to use at least up to level 3 power throw weapons.  I think the requirements should be lowered on some of the medium and under throwing weapons, and damage reduced some as well (basically making them in line with a melee swing damage).  It seems kind of ridiculous that most of the throwers you see are pure throwers, when in reality most infantry should be able to use some throwing weapons. 
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Offline F i n

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #169 on: April 14, 2014, 07:29:02 pm »
0

Yeah I didn't state that, but I 100% agree as well.  As much as it would fuck me over on my light horse, I think that every melee player should pretty much be able to use at least up to level 3 power throw weapons.  I think the requirements should be lowered on some of the medium and under throwing weapons, and damage reduced some as well (basically making them in line with a melee swing damage).  It seems kind of ridiculous that most of the throwers you see are pure throwers, when in reality most infantry should be able to use some throwing weapons.

Realism talk again? :D

Don't forget this is a game, and pure throwing builds are damn fun (also can be balanced, as they were in the past).

So you'd rather cut MY (and i'm sure tons of other ppls) main motivation to play this game, because it's not realistic?

:/
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #170 on: April 14, 2014, 09:39:28 pm »
-2
Realism talk again? :D

Don't forget this is a game, and pure throwing builds are damn fun (also can be balanced, as they were in the past).

So you'd rather cut MY (and i'm sure tons of other ppls) main motivation to play this game, because it's not realistic?

:/

Not just realism, I think it does too much damage.  I don't think there ever should have been any balance around throwing to make it a main build.  Throwing should have always been balanced around a hybrid build. 
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Offline San

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #171 on: April 14, 2014, 09:59:05 pm »
+4
Difficulty, weapon damage, PT, and accuracy affect accuracy in various ways. Why it works like this? No clue, maybe just to add more complexity.

When jarids received a 3 point decrease in damage and 6 accuracy increase, it was as if the accuracy was increased by 10 if you compare it to its old accuracy. Messing with throwing requirements means messing with accuracy, too. Requirements are already pretty low outside of the 6+ PT weapons. You have access to 39 blunt at +3 at 3PT. The only weapons that I could see having reduced difficulty are throwing spears, the throwing lance, and some of the weak cut throwing weapons.

Right now, a throwing weapon deals similar damage to a non-held melee strike of the same stats -2 damage or so. I think throwing should receive a hold bonus with a slightly decreased maximum multiplier/penalty and tweaked timing compared to melee. The extra timing aspect would provide some more power for good throwers outside of rapid fire throwing while reducing the leeway for just holding your aim forever.

Unfortunately, speed bonus had to be reduced since that ended up giving cav ranged much more damage potential than than their on-foot counterparts. There is still a sizable increase, but the gap isn't as large. Cav have some weird head hurtboxes. I remember a few times when I threw a weapon into a horse's eye but didn't see any extra damage (was using the in-game calculator). I said it in the other thread on suggestions, but I would like to see something like 50-70% armor for the legs and head instead of the 0 armor on the legs feature.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 10:02:32 pm by San »

Offline F i n

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #172 on: April 14, 2014, 10:21:35 pm »
+1
Not just realism, I think it does too much damage.  I don't think there ever should have been any balance around throwing to make it a main build.  Throwing should have always been balanced around a hybrid build.

And why should that be?

Throwing has proven to be a legit standalone class as well.

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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #173 on: April 15, 2014, 11:05:11 pm »
+3
Fin the 2 don't need to be mutually exclusive, i'm in favour of low-damage low-requirement type throwing weapons for the majority (in line with my concept of fun medieval combat), but this doesn't mean that a dedicated thrower should be punished.

Perhaps lower the base damage, but buff the value of PT so that a dedicated thrower (6-7 PT) is not nerfed from their current state, but your average infantryman would have access to more the kind of throwing we were talking about. If people want to commit and dedicate themselves to unconventional classes i still think that's great, throwing is one of my favourite ways to play too.

I've stopped playing cRPG because of an abundance of throwers on every server in the past, and if something like this was to happen, I'd start playing again just so I could quit and post about it again.
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Offline Jona

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #174 on: April 21, 2014, 12:53:03 am »
+1
Not just realism, I think it does too much damage.  I don't think there ever should have been any balance around throwing to make it a main build.  Throwing should have always been balanced around a hybrid build.

My main problem is that it does great damage from afar (arguably too much, but any melee would complain all ranged does too much, right?) and is still effective in melee. All throwing weapons should be as useless as either war darts or jarids in melee mode. Perhaps let throwers block, but only attack in one direction (like war darts can only stab). Nothing like the throwing lance should exist for a thrower to use in melee. As a polearmer, I would honestly buy a non-throwing polearm that had stats like that. It's basically a staff with a spearhead on it... its fucking ridiculous considering the fact that it can also be thrown. And due to the fact it can be thrown, there is a unique throwing mode -> melee mode feint that happens where there is essentially no animation to your attack if you change the mode and stab. If all the war dart/lance/jarid type weapons got melee mode nerfs, then perhaps axes and even hammers could make a comeback. Right now the axes aren't worth it since cut damage is almost worthless as ranged.
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Offline San

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #175 on: April 21, 2014, 01:29:28 am »
0
I dunno man. HTAs are 97 speed, 50 something length, and 32 cut (36 at +3). That's a hatchet with +7 cut, which is pretty bad IMO. Jarids/war darts in melee mode are just a joke (they deal like 14p, 92 speed, 50 something length), never even worth trying to attack with them.

Offline Jona

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #176 on: April 21, 2014, 02:14:11 am »
+1
Like I said, axes are acceptable, and I wish more throwers used them so they could have some melee effectiveness. They are by no means a poor weapon considering that melee is not their main purpose. 36 cut on a 1h is pretty decent. Jarids are laughable, yes, but that is how it should be. They are amazing when as ranged so they should be complete shit in melee. Really the only weapon that breaks the balance is the throwing lance.
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #177 on: April 21, 2014, 02:15:41 am »
+2
Franciscas are 50 length, 26c, TAs are 53 length 29c. Really, only HTA and Lances have usable melee modes.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #178 on: April 21, 2014, 02:56:54 am »
+2
Franciscas are 50 length, 26c, TAs are 53 length 29c. Really, only HTA and Lances have usable melee modes.

Lances in melee mode are way too strong though

Offline Jona

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Re: 0.3.3.5
« Reply #179 on: April 21, 2014, 03:20:01 am »
0
The throwing lance is far more than simply useable. It's downright OP in melee, as well as being insanely effective at ranged. Franciscas are frankly pretty terrible at ranged as well as melee, but what more do you want from a low cost, low requirement weapon? Imo all axes/hammers should be as effective as the heavy throwing axe in melee if not a little better, and all the far more common pierce damage throwing weapons should be as effective as jarids for melee. This makes hammers/axes worth carrying around for a thrower. It simply takes far too many axes (when thrown) to down someone with the average armor you find on the battlefield nowadays. They aren't even viable against low-armor agi builds since they have a slow missile speed. Compare this to jarids nearly downing anyone with only 2 body shots, and throwing axes are useless. Make them better at melee, and the lance worse, and perhaps we can see more variety amongst throwers.
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