1h cav

[SP1N]

Clearly those spearmen were just glancing.

Due to the sweetspot change, no doubt.

[Aksei]

oh that salty tears 

well, as cav i can say, if you nerf cav, then give me make it 200% cheaper.

If i compare my heavy cav char with my 2H alt, then the performance is the same while horse cost more than double.

The funny thing is, that i play a lot of 1h infatry, what should be easy target for other cav ... but i just dont run like a blind bot at enemies, so i dont get killed by cav that much

[Gurnisson]

bump slash: where you hit the horse and it doesn't flinch the player continues to bump you over and then proceeds to hit your head while you are inside the player's horse and you can't do a single thing about it and you are lucky if you survive, because to bump slash you have to be very very skilled player..


don't you agree Tzar?

I'm sorry, but if you get bump-slashed while using a greatsword you're either not aware or bad against cavalry. Either reason makes you getting hit deserved.

Also, op, if you have problems with spears against 2h/1h cav you're not just bad, you're awful

1h/2h cav is classes that are brilliant shock troops. Can take out unaware opponents, ranged who have used their shot right before you engage and shielders with short weapons. Aware 2h or polearm players? Not a chance if they're anything but awful. Lancers trades some damage and arc for the ability to take on anyone but pikemen in a 1v1, compared to other melee cavalry.

[Elio]

Buff throwers, problem fixed

I just noticed with my thrower alt I don't even 1 hit light horse with Throwing Lance and 8 PT. Except Sumpter and donkey, maybe.

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[Thranduil]

Buff throwers,

 

[Teeth]

1h/2h cav is classes that are brilliant shock troops. Can take out unaware opponents, ranged who have used their shot right before you engage and shielders with short weapons. Aware 2h or polearm players? Not a chance if they're anything but awful. Lancers trades some damage and arc for the ability to take on anyone but pikemen in a 1v1, compared to other melee cavalry.

They can also take out anyone who is currently distracted, regardless of the length of their weapon. And they can take those guys out much more efficiently than lancer cavalry due to significantly higher damage output. Saying that lancers can take on anyone but pikemen (and hoplites, and any other 165+ length polearms) in a 1 vs 1 might be true in theory, but in practice very few lancers actually do. I like the challenge of trying to take on Awlpikes or Greatswords with my Lance, but lancing sweetspot is so very small and there are so many variables like them moving or jumping, which can completely ruin your timing, you really need to be confident and mostly slow down your horse to be able to react in time. If you succeed you do half the hp of the guy if you are very lucky, or do 10% or glance. If you fail your horse is most likely dead which leads to you incurring 2 hits while lying on the floor. In practice, the average lancer does not have the ability to take on 120 length stab 2h and 150+ length polearms, if they did more lancers would actually do it.

With all the changes to stab mechanics I really have to be on the ball with my timing to not glance, and that is with a 9 PS lancer build. If you compare the ease of hitting for good damage with a lance and the ease of hitting for good damage with a 1h cav build, I definitely feel like a tightening of the swinging sweet spots is in order. I have been hit for high damage with some retarded backhand swings or swings with terrible speed bonus. Get more of a skill curve on 1h cav, punish poor timing. So many piss poor 1h cavalry getting such high scores because regardless of your ability, bumpslashing people that are distracted or unaware is just very easy.

[Artyem]

Honestly, 2h cav is way more OP than 1h cav.  Using a morningstar from horseback is probably the easiest thing I've done in this game, seeing as how it seems to do full damage regardless of how fast you're moving or which direction you're swinging.

The thing that annoys me the most though are the people using great lances on arabian horses, since they seem to be capable of couching while going up hill and turning to accommodate for enemy movement.

[Bulzur]

Backslashing with a 2h or 1h weapon on cav has such a great speed and range, it usually always distracts me.

Even after killing the horse, the rider doesn't even get fall damage. What's with the roll now, it's like you don't get any penalty, and have 2 lives... You just have to be "slightly" rich, and you're bound to be stronger than all others.

It's just the natural evolution. Everyone should be on a horse. It's not even about the "price", and cost/effectiveness ratio, since all demands of stronger bows/2h/polearms unusable on horseback and as expensive as a Plated Charger have been refused cause of obvious OPness. Yet, horses stay.


I'd also like to add the ridiculous boost a +3 horse has compared to it's +0 counterpart. Heirlooming your horse really feels like the smartest thing to do.
Having a +3 War Horse gives you :
Price : 33 248 gold
Speed : 43
Armor : 44
HP : 135
Maneuver : 43
Charge : 38
Difficulty : 5

So much better than an Eastern Horse :
Price : 23 981 gold
Speed : 44
Armor : 6
Speed : 44
HP : 80
Maneuver : 44
Charge : 11
Difficulty : 8


Always felt strange. There's just no real reason to go for an unarmored horse if you're going 1h/cav...

[Tzar]

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[Gurnisson]

What's with the roll now, it's like you don't get any penalty, and have 2 lives...

What are you talking about? You can't roll when you get dismounted if that's what you're trying to say. Not 2 lives at all, you can be gunned down before you lose your horse, die one the ground when you're helpless after being dismounted, or even die together with your horse at the same time, as the horse and the rider can be hit by the same weapon at the same time.

It's just the natural evolution. Everyone should be on a horse. It's not even about the "price", and cost/effectiveness ratio, since all demands of stronger bows/2h/polearms unusable on horseback and as expensive as a Plated Charger have been refused cause of obvious OPness. Yet, horses stay.

Horses are not straight upgrades for your character. They cost you skill points and makes your effectiveness more situational. Cavalry can be stronger than the other classes, but they can also be weaker. Getting dismounted close to 2-3 infantry usually means death, unless the horse lands in a very favourable position and soaks a few hits.

[//saxon]

I'm sorry, but if you get bump-slashed while using a greatsword you're either not aware or bad against cavalry. Either reason makes you getting hit deserved.

bump slash: where you hit the horse and it doesn't flinch the player continues to bump you over

i hit the horse every time, shields hoover my swings up most of the time though.


the thing is, anyone who charges me trying to bump slash knows their horse has enough HP to live after i hit it (IF I HIT IT)
which makes it stupid because no matter what i do, they are going to survive and bump slash me, i can't avoid it

i mean who the hell would charge a greatsword if their horse has 10 hp?

thanks teeth

So many piss poor 1h cavalry getting such high scores because regardless of your ability, bumpslashing people that are distracted or unaware is just very easy.

very correct.

[Mustikki]

..So many piss poor 1h cavalry getting such high scores because regardless of your ability, bumpslashing people that are distracted or unaware is just very easy.

You actually got any screenies of that? 'Cos I never see any noob (except 2nuubhammers) topping the scoreboard or constantly doing good on real battle regardless of their build.
+ bumpslash has changed to be needing more skills.

[Jona]

bumpslash has changed to be needing more skills.

bumpslash ... to be needing more skills.

bumpslash ... needing more skills.

bumpslash ... skills.

Lol. Riiiiiiiiiiiight...

[San]

It's difficult for me to sympathize with cavalry when they are in control of their own risk/reward with gameplay that's already very forgiving. Cav can hunt other cav, but not enough do it, sadly.

the thing is, anyone who charges me trying to bump slash knows their horse has enough HP to live after i hit it (IF I HIT IT)

This. If you know your horse can tank a hit, landing a bump slash is more than possible, even on an aware/good player. You can also goad infantry to over-commit on their attacks (especially jumping) or ignore them completely. Cav have the option on not having to overcommit or even commit at all on their own attacks, such as attacking a location you know would hit if the infantry moves towards you or perform another predicted action. Although that's more of a tactic for lancers, similar tactics can be performed to get the bump slash, such as getting the opponent to swing too early or late.

Outside of the situation where your horse is getting shot at low health, you can generally control how and where you get dehorsed if you mess up (or just get off the horse yourself). Don't get dehorsed by juggernauts, throwers, or around any arbalests, and you can get up for another few kills.

[Teeth]

Cav can hunt other cav, but not enough do it, sadly.

That is another thing, fighting 1h cav as a lancer is something I find quite tough and totally not worth the risk if it weren't for my burning hatred for 1h cav. They are often able to completely annihilate my team if left unchecked, so I take one for the team and spent my round hunting them, but damn. As a lancer your horse has to always face their horse to be able to hit and only the slightest touch of the guys horse makes your horse do a full stop. Which completely removes any advantage you have and is gonna get your horse 1 or 2 shot. Combined with the incredible coverage of nearly the entire horse that a small ass shield like the Elite Cav gives, it just incredibly hard to deal damage to a 1h cav without getting stopped and then owned.

1h cav is just such an incredible combination of borked game mechanics that I would love to see adjusted before even touching the weapon stats or anything. Fix the amount of coverage a shield gives you on horseback, make horse rearing trigger less easily on a horse slightly grazing another horse, prevent 1h cav from being able to hit through their horse and reduce the size of sweetspots for horse slashes, just to name a few. Probably all too difficult or time intensive to do, in which case I would support a slight damage nerf.