Make normal arrows 0 slot and make Horn/Tatar bows 2 slot.

[bigsean]

To prevent HA's from taking 3 stacks of arrows (encouraging the douchebags to pew pew spam from the edges of the map) unless they are using the Nomad, which would be pretty silly since you #1 can't fire that many in a round (I've very very rarely run out of arrows even with 2 stacks) and #2 You won't be doing any damage anyhow.

It also prevents foot archers from becoming OP by taking a Horn bow, Bodkins, 0 slot arrows, and a Poleaxe. There needs to be a tradeoff, either in the number of arrows, the damage caused by multiple stacks of 0 slot arrows, or be forced to take a less powerful 0 slot melee weapon if they want Horn bow bodkins bodkins + melee weapon.

The tradeoff is there already isn't enough WPF to be good at both, you can either be good at one and terrible at the other or barely decent at both. A build more focused on agi takes away melee dmg, use one with more str and your accuracy suffers. Your idea takes away the possibility of 2H, Pole or using a shield if you use any of the 2 slot bows (which would then be tatar, bow, horn, rus, and long. All the popular foot archer bows.). And that's with just 1 stack of 1 slot arrows. That only leaves a few bows, the weakest ones and 1 HA bow because of its slow missile speed.

It would be a huge nerf for most hybrids to give HAs a slight boost in this way.

[Rumblood]

The tradeoff is there already isn't enough WPF to be good at both, you can either be good at one and terrible at the other or barely decent at both. A build more focused on agi takes away melee dmg, use one with more str and your accuracy suffers.

Not true. You are still plenty effective with both. 18/18 at lvl 31 with 6 in nearly every important skill. 120 wpf in archery, and the rest all in melee (which barely needs any) and you are effective in 2 areas.

Your idea takes away the possibility of 2H, Pole or using a shield if you use any of the 2 slot bows (which would then be tatar, bow, horn, rus, and long. All the popular foot archer bows.). And that's with just 1 stack of 1 slot arrows. That only leaves a few bows, the weakest ones and 1 HA bow because of its slow missile speed.

Again, not true. Got reading?  2 slot bow + 0 slot arrows + 0 slot arrows + 2 slot 2H/polearm/2 slot shield = 4 slots (There are also 0 and 1 slot shields and why the fuck would an archer want a shield?)

It would be a huge nerf for most hybrids to give HAs a slight boost in this way.

Again, you aren't getting it? It would hardly affect HA's at all except that they would have the option of spear on horseback if they take the damage penalty on 0 slot arrows. It would be a BUFF to hybrids who get into a melee situation 500% more often than a HA does because now they have the option of carrying a really nice melee weapon at the expense of some damage in the ranged area.

And why would we want to do that? Because I at least would like to see melee opened back up to archers in a meaningful way because it used to be very enjoyable. Every patch over the past couple of years has made it far more efficient to max your archery skill because melee for archers got to be a worse and worse option. I want to bring back the archers who put away their bow and engaged with the melee chasing him in heavy armor, and not ones who look to avoid melee because your chances are slim as a meth head. People can argue that it was still possible, but what happened in reality is far more important than a theoretical supposition.

[Bulzur]

Not true. You are still plenty effective with both. 18/18 at lvl 31 with 6 in nearly every important skill. 120 wpf in archery, and the rest all in melee (which barely needs any) and you are effective in 2 areas.

That's not effective at all. That's way too little to be called effective, seriously.


Also, having normal arrows is pointless. People are wearing heirloomed medium armor at least, and if you don't use bodkins, you're only a threat to fake peasant, poor archers, or unarmored horses. Way too limited targets imo.

To be effective, you need bodkin arrows. The end.

[bigsean]

I play 18/18 and use a shield. The above poster is right 120wpf is much too low and I would expect a 15 gen reg archer to know that. I have 144 wpf in archery but the effective wpf becomes ~65. I also try to stay under the 10 weight. It's okay up to horn/yumi but anything more powerful is rough. Your build negates shields and frankly its one of the only viable options at 50 wpf, everyone else is too speedy and gets lots more practice at melee. I don't know how you think anyone other than HA uses arrows but your hybrid builds always assume players would use those crap arrows and weigh themselves down with two stacks. Another thing you overlook, which can be negligible to HA.

I get into melee much more than I ever did with this build. No need to be rude just because you can't fathom non HA hybrids.


See these loadouts?

horn bow
bodkin x1
2H

horn bow
tatar x1
Pole

horn bow
bodkin x1
1h (1 slot)
shield (1 slot)

or for the pure archer:
horn bow
bodkin x2
1h (1 slot)

They all take up 4 slots, most with just one stack of arrows, but you would have those loadouts become impossible. Improving melee capabilities, yeah right.

[Rumblood]

I play 18/18 and use a shield. The above poster is right 120wpf is much too low and I would expect a 15 gen reg archer to know that. I have 144 wpf in archery but the effective wpf becomes ~65. I also try to stay under the 10 weight. It's okay up to horn/yumi but anything more powerful is rough. Your build negates shields and frankly its one of the only viable options at 50 wpf, everyone else is too speedy and gets lots more practice at melee. I don't know how you think anyone other than HA uses arrows but your hybrid builds always assume players would use those crap arrows and weigh themselves down with two stacks. Another thing you overlook, which can be negligible to HA.

I get into melee much more than I ever did with this build. No need to be rude just because you can't fathom non HA hybrids.


See these loadouts?

horn bow
bodkin x1
2H

horn bow
tatar x1
Pole

horn bow
bodkin x1
1h (1 slot)
shield (1 slot)

or for the pure archer:
horn bow
bodkin x2
1h (1 slot)

They all take up 4 slots, most with just one stack of arrows, but you would have those loadouts become impossible. Improving melee capabilities, yeah right.

HOLY SHIT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT 0 SLOT MEANS????? Bodkins are NOT the only arrow that can be used. Normal arrows are just fine.

And the rest is still untrue. 120 wpf is plenty, not pinpoint accurate, but plenty for a skirmisher archer. I'm running around, on foot, with a Long Bow and 107 WPF right now and not having any problems at short to mid ranged distance. Can I pinpoint across the entire map for a headshot like I can with 190WPF? No, but does that mean the build isn't effective? Far from it. Oh yes, having no problems with running around with 2 stacks of arrows. I can dodge cavalry no problem.

Maybe 15 gens on foot just means it is easier for me than for you or you wear too much armor, one or the other.

[bigsean]

HOLY SHIT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT 0 SLOT MEANS????? Bodkins are NOT the only arrow that can be used. Normal arrows are just fine.

Dude. You're missing the point. My point is that ANY 1 slot arrow becomes IMPOSSIBLE TO USE in those cases and then you HAVE to use Arrows. I even included tatar in one example in hopes you'd get that.

And the rest is still untrue. 120 wpf is plenty, not pinpoint accurate, but plenty for a skirmisher archer. I'm running around, on foot, with a Long Bow and 107 WPF right now and not having any problems at short to mid ranged distance. Far from it. Oh yes, having no problems with running around with 2 stacks of arrows. I can dodge cavalry no problem.

Remember PD lowers effective WPF. At the required 6 PD for a long bow your effective WPF is at most 34 with no penalties from weight. Let's talk about your build.

Long Bow (likely MW) 2 slots
2 Stacks of any arrows 2 slots

Of course with 0 slots left your melee is going to be weak, thats what you get for bringing the best bow + 2 stacks. You should be happy the devs even let this work, they gave you a nice selection of 0 slots weapons to work with. Go down to 1 stack and at most you can afford a 1 slot 1h.

Yes it certainly would be nice for you to have arrows 0 slot wouldn't it? What's a 3c damage difference between Tatar Arrows and Arrows when you yourself have 33c on the Long Bow? A change like this would just free YOU up to use better melee weapons, not hybrid archers as a whole.

With your horrendous draw speed I'd imagine you'd also have trouble with faster archers (any archer who has MORE than 34 effective WPF and using ANY other bow). The same archers who use the horn and tatar bows. It would be so nice for YOU if those bows became 2 slot. As I said before, these hybrid archers would be forced to use Arrows, lowering their damage output. We already take the damage hit when we choose to use these faster bows over the slower ones. In fact, I could see it encouraging pure archery and shotgun bows instead of more melee capability.

And don't tell me you don't have problems running around with 2 stacks of arrows. That's 20 weight, on top of the long bow being the heaviest bow. I can take a badass 1h and a heavy shield and still have 6-9 less weight than that using the horn. And with 6 ath, even Bob in full plate outruns my build.

But let's assume you can "dodge cavalry no problem", how are you going to kill him with your weak melee weapon, worst draw speed, and lack of pierce (because you aren't going to fire arrows fast enough or accurately enough to shoot his horse down)?

Maybe 15 gens on foot just means it is easier for me than for you or you wear too much armor, one or the other.

No, it just means your extremely biased and embellish your arguments. I said before I try to stay under the weight limit for archers,  my armor takes me from 66 to 65 effective wpf.
It really just means you gain exp at a faster rate than me, I don't play strat so that's easy enough.


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[Rumblood]

I see. You are likely a Horn Bow+2xbodkins+1 slot melee whore given your complaints.  I have news for you. I own every bow and every arrow and have used each one of them for generations on foot and horseback. I know what is possible with every build. You aren't talking to a melee-centric player here. You are talking to an archer. So quit trying to tell me what can't be done. I know exactly what can be done, more than any but a small handful of other committed archers who have stuck with it through every change over the past 3 years. You have exaggerated every single point and are still wrong on them. Guess what? That build needs to be brought into balance. Being forced to go Horn Bow + 2x bodkins + 0 slot melee is not going to kill you and is balanced with every other archer build. I would be more than happy to see that build go from 1 slot to 0 slot and melee in order to give plethora of options to all builds that this would bring.

[bigsean]

I play 18/18 and use a shield.

Your "got reading" thing is really rich. Haven't I said over and over what I really think of 2 stacks of arrows? TOO HEAVY. What does all that mean to you? "bigsean must have 2x of bodkins and a 0 slot wep." Arguing with you is exactly like arguing with a girl, you avoid rational arguments and just reiterate what you want over and over. Yet apparently i'm the one who has "exaggerated every point". My points are slots and calculations. Yours are based on what you "feel".  You have no hard facts to debunk anything i've stated, just "i did 15 gens so I know" or "I have every bow and arrow in the game", well I am currently a gen 8 min/maxer. I love to theorycraft. Obviously you're behind on some mechanics.

I also have news for you, things change. That archery you "knew" gens ago is gone, adapt like the rest of us. I don't see you on NA when I play, but back when I did you really weren't as good as you think you are.

[Templar_Steevee]

I can't get why you crying that you are forced to use 0 slot melee weapons.

I have +3 short arming sword and it's quite deadly even with my 2 ps and 1 wpf in 1h.

I'm also using it on my alt as main weapon and i'm killing plenty ppl with it.

Devs make all those 0 slot weapons to give melee abilities to ranged (hammer, pickaxe and hand axe were not good for dealing dmg), but in same time not making ranged too OP