Author Topic: Whats the new shield skill mechanic  (Read 3480 times)

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Offline epoch

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2014, 04:29:16 am »
-2
If you look at every possible build individually, way more than 3/4 would be completely useless. But obviously that's not what you are talking about.


What he said... Unfortunately chadz and his overlord friends made agility useless past like 9-12 because they want the game to be all about tin can bullshit... But then they increased upkeep so you have a bunch of strength characters running around in medium armor... The dev team on the mod is full retard.

They had a good think like 3 years ago when new people could actually get into the mod and have a chance at being decent. But with the admins constantly banning people from team wounding accidentally and just because some baby cries about it pushes people away. I'll always remember the days of 0 upkeep and 600+ people playing on like 10 different servers... Sadly its down to only like 1-200 now.

But when you make a game/mod designed for individuality and interesting builds being viable and nerf everything to shit except strength and hire children as mods. Thats what happens.

I still love the mod and its still probably my 2nd most played game of all time. But i hope bannerlord will have some character progression akin to CRPG in multiplier. Probably not but hopefully.
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Offline Sniger

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2014, 04:05:42 pm »
+4
Shields are useless

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Offline Phew

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2014, 04:35:17 pm »
+4
I made a proposal that may help a bit with extra effectiveness for high shield skill with the shield wall bonus (providing +2 to +4 to other shielders at high levels) and better scaling of shield bash damage to not deal 0 damage in almost all cases to light-medium armour, but voting has been a little inactive lately. I want it so lower shield players shouldn't notice anything, but higher shield skill players would have some extra utility without directly buffing them.

I like this line of thinking (higher skill=more utility). I have 7 shield skill and a +3 shield, and my shield out-lives me 99% of the time; between swings that go around/through the block, crushthrough, and kicks, generally I consider myself lucky if the shield absorbed enough hits to actually break. I'd even advocate shield durability not be at all modified by shield skill; with higher skill you simply gain more utility (you'd have to up base durability, obviously). I can think of all kinds of bonuses that shield skill could unlock:
-Faster movement speed while holding blocks
-Lower effective shield weight
-Increased shield bash capability (damage/reach/speed/recovery time/etc) like you mentioned
-Resistance to block stun/crushthrough (I still feel there is a bug where shields behave lighter than their weight stat indicates for these purposes)
-Better coverage against melee and ranged (lateral coverage against melee is too ping-dependent right now, and lateral "forcefield" against ranged is nonexistent for anything but HRS/huscarl shield)

The above would make it easier for shielders to "lead the charge" and protect allies behind them. As it stands now, shielders are typically at the rear of the advance because they are the slowest troops (OP 15/30 builds excepted). And like dread mentioned, shields are a huge liability in a 1v1 melee fight, so if this paradigm is going to be maintained, then shielders should at least be given the capabilities to properly support their teammates.

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 04:50:06 pm »
+2
Quote
-Faster movement speed while holding blocks
-Lower effective shield weight

These were asked, and I believe these would break WSE or the server or something. I also asked for the possibility of shield skill having a larger effect on shield speed, too, and that can't be done.

Quote
-Resistance to block stun/crushthrough (I still feel there is a bug where shields behave lighter than their weight stat indicates for these purposes)

I believe it could work, but I think crushthrough and block stun should have their place for more of an incentive to use heavier shields.

Quote
-Better coverage against melee and ranged (lateral coverage against melee is too ping-dependent right now, and lateral "forcefield" against ranged is nonexistent for anything but HRS/huscarl shield)

I believe shield works the same as melee blocking outside of turning your side block to block attacks to your side/behind. I forget what was said about the forcefield, and I don't know the specifics over how much it increases per point in shield.

Quote
OP 15/30 builds excepted

Haha, it's fun, you should try it.

Offline Phew

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 05:14:20 pm »
+2
I believe shield works the same as melee blocking outside of turning your side block to block attacks to your side/behind. I forget what was said about the forcefield, and I don't know the specifics over how much it increases per point in shield.

Well, it's that "turning your side block" that gives manual blocking massive 180+ deg coverage against sideswings. Yet if you turn your shield into the tip of the weapon (away from the player), you get smacked. It's counter-intuitive. Manual blocking generally makes physical sense, whereas shield blocking doesn't seem to have anything to do with actual physics.

The ranged forcefield is weird. Even only a few shield points give you a great forcefield extending down to your feet; even bucklers can protect your legs/feet pretty well from the front. However, the lateral forcefield is awful, and appears to only be a function of shield width (not shield skill).

Whenever I play high agility builds, I always just murder myself with my own speed (donating massive speed bonus to my opponents' attacks). They are good for disciplined players like yourself, but since I only play siege and am used to respawns, I do risky shit like trying to outstab people with much longer weapons. Also, the new sideswing sweetspots are glancy enough with 7PS and 33cut now, I wouldn't want to make it even worse.


Offline Jona

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 06:17:36 pm »
+1
-Faster movement speed while holding blocks
-Lower effective shield weight

Would be cool.

These were asked, and I believe these would break WSE or the server or something. I also asked for the possibility of shield skill having a larger effect on shield speed, too, and that can't be done.

Damnit...

-Increased shield bash capability (damage/reach/speed/recovery time/etc) like you mentioned

As a non-shielder (who does rarely play as a  shielder alt) I kind of have to agree to disagree on this point. If you have variable range then shield bash becomes super useful in a fight, since your opponent would never know how long your range is on it until they are hit with it, and even then it might be hard to judge its true range, espeically since I doubt the animation would be tweaked at all depending on skill. Be awfully unfair to have the same animation but giving different ranges to different players... your opponent just won't have any clue as to how close they can be to you. More damage would be nice, but also having an effective non-blockable attack is kinda unfair for all the other classes who don't have one. The 'bitch slap' nudge with a shield can occasionally do somewhat significant damage to lightly armored players, but other than that it does effectively none. There is little reason why getting smacked with a shield would do damage while getting smacked with the pommel of a sword or shaft of a polearm doesn't. Perhaps improving the recovery time would be acceptable. Whenever I play a shielder, all I want from my shieldbash is for the range to make sense. I oftentimes bash through my enemy and end up hitting my ally or a different enemy who was standing behind him... leading to many accidental tks in siege during moshpits on the walls. It is times like these when shieldbash seems to have a massive range (at least long enough to hit through someone, apparently) and yet when I try and hit someone at that range (the range that corresponds to the fully extended animation) it never connects. I think it is simply a matter of  optimizing the animation to make active hitbox to line up better with it. It kind of feels like the old 1hand stab at the moment.

-Resistance to block stun/crushthrough (I still feel there is a bug where shields behave lighter than their weight stat indicates for these purposes)

Yyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssss, please yes!

I believe it could work, but I think crushthrough and block stun should have their place for more of an incentive to use heavier shields.

 :evil: Dangit! Shield weight barely seems to even matter, as phew mentioned. I can block nearly any long maul or great maul hit with confidence with my 18 str (6 PS) and weight 3 axe, but I can never manage to block (with confidence anyways) either with my 6 shield skill and weight 5 knightly heater or even my weight 8 huscarls shield.

-Better coverage against melee and ranged (lateral coverage against melee is too ping-dependent right now, and lateral "forcefield" against ranged is nonexistent for anything but HRS/huscarl shield)

While side coverage in melee would be nice, I imagine it would be pretty difficult, if at all possible, to tweak without breaking melee combat. Oftentimes I will swing (overhead) at someone from behind and if I am standing a little too close, my weapon will collide with the shield that they are holding IN FRONT of them before the back of their head. It rarely ever happens, but I can only imagine the funkiness that could ensue if the same proved true for side swings all the time. Also ranged have a hard enough time hitting shielders (at least archers, anyways... throwers can just hit you once your shield breaks after a few hits, and crossbows can just shoot you through the shield half the time). Shields shouldn't be a "hold RMB for invincibility" item. They should require at least some skill to use effectively, which they currently do. You gotta aim at the archers shooting you... if there are two archers, well... aim at the right one at the right time!
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Offline dreadnok

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2014, 07:30:49 pm »
+7
I find it strange I block more crush thru attacks with no shield then with.  The big heavy shields really are shit. I shouldn't get hit in the head with Arrow when holding a heavy board shield over my head, elite cab and the fast offensive ones are OK bit break way to easy
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Offline karasu

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2014, 08:23:02 pm »
+7
Shields are useless, you get hit less without them

This.

Those 7 shield skill points I wasted would've been in a better place if used on IF.

I'd rather see shield skill fixed properly before fixing secondary things like shield wall bonus and bash damage.

Offline HarunYahya

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2014, 08:37:08 pm »
+6
Shields are really useless.
Lowers your movspeed,lowers your hit speed drastically,gets hiltslashed easily,doesn't cover hits as much as manuel blocks do.
It's just good to avoid ranged damage but you can't chase archers with proper balanced builds , if you do catch them it's still hard to kill them since they can just fucking nudge you to 500 meters away and keep running and kiting till his/her cav comes and couches your sorry ass :D

I retired from my shielder because of excessive team hits i've been getting,rage on fail block coverage and EZ backpedal spam against it.

If you go STR shielder you rage cuz of being slow, if you go AGI shielder you rage because you die easily to your teammates attacks (Dem kill hungry poles/2hs) So shit on both ends of the stick , choose how you wanna die :D

Offline Phew

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2014, 08:42:18 pm »
+2
I find it strange I block more crush thru attacks with no shield then with.  The big heavy shields really are shit. I shouldn't get hit in the head with Arrow when holding a heavy board shield over my head, elite cab and the fast offensive ones are OK bit break way to easy

Jona probably remembers the time he went up a ladder ahead of me and blocked a held Long Maul overhead (from Bicep I think?) with his 1.8kg Spathion (this was his 1h alt), then the same guy crushed through my 5kg Knightly Heater. I have 21 str, I don't think Jona's guy has more than that. It would have been funny if this wasn't the norm.

Offline Jona

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2014, 09:03:56 pm »
+1
Jona probably remembers the time he went up a ladder ahead of me and blocked a held Long Maul overhead (from Bicep I think?) with his 1.8kg Spathion (this was his 1h alt), then the same guy crushed through my 5kg Knightly Heater. I have 21 str, I don't think Jona's guy has more than that. It would have been funny if this wasn't the norm.

I find myself using my shield to get up ladders, and then once on the walls if I see melee close by I inevitably put my shield on my back and just fight them without it... my blocking skills are good enough that the manual blocks are more reliable than my shield. I try to melee with my shield, I really do, but sooner or later a pole or 2h will clip through it time and time again, and I just start going swashbuckler.

And yes, If I ever see a mauler at the top of a ladder, I block with my sword 100% of the time... as you said, my lightweight (but relatively heavy for a 1hander) sword blocks heavy mauls better than my 5 kg, or even 8 kg shield. Makes sense.  :rolleyes:
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Offline Riddaren

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2014, 09:25:05 pm »
+2
.1 + 0.06 * shield skill

So, they have still not fixed it then.
.1 + 0.06 * 15 = 1

Level 34
3/46 15 shield

Go for it! :wink:

Offline San

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2014, 09:27:11 pm »
+3
Sure, go ahead. I'll be the first to laugh at you. That would require extreme devotion, though.

Offline betard_lulz

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2014, 09:38:52 pm »
+3
Everythings been nerfed to shit in this mod. nofunallowed.jpg

Offline Tiger

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Re: Whats the new shield skill mechanic
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2014, 11:27:47 pm »
+1
I admit, Jona and Phew are pretty annoying to fight  :(
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