Attention Grey Order !!!

[Butan]

I'm of the part of the population that believe serious crime that deserve over 20 years of prison are a bigger form of torture for both the prisoner then the society (when released, if still alive) than death penalty.

If justice isnt "sure" the guy is guilty then why charge him 25 years of prison and let him kill another innocent man 25 years later?

[Macropus]

Gnjus thinks he is trolling... Well, fine. 

[Prpavi]

Troll thread.

Bait accepted.

Is this subject really the most pressing matter at the moment, consider the collection of people from all over Europe, North America and other parts of the globe playing c-rpg and then consider the shit storm that may potentially fuck us all up once NATO tries to grab the bear by the throat, in a geopolitical sense anyway, in Ukraine and Eastern Europe.

http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/meanwhile-in-ukraine/ 

[Murmillus_Prime]

On a side note, in my view those who can be proven have murdered with 100% intent should have the death penalty, and those who've killed multiple individuals with intent should suffer a slower more painful death to reflect the damage they may have done to the loved ones left by the victims. Sounds a bit sadistic right? I don't think hotel prison deters some killers, although I don't profess to be an expert on prisons mind you.

[Erasmas]

And I am truly afraid of court mistakes. That is the only reason why I opt against death penalty.

[Prpavi]

And I am truly afraid of court mistakes. That is the only reason why I opt against death penalty.

that is the reason we don't have death penalties and massive castrations in civilised countries, it is to protect the small percentage of innocent people being wrongfully accused, proving guilt and determening appropriate punishment is not an easy process and unfortunately there are innocent people in the prisons all over the world.

[Christo]

On a side note, in my view those who can be proven have murdered with 100% intent should have the death penalty, and those who've killed multiple individuals with intent should suffer a slower more painful death to reflect the damage they may have done to the loved ones left by the victims. Sounds a bit sadistic right? I don't think hotel prison deters some killers, although I don't profess to be an expert on prisons mind you.

Sounds all nice and righteous until you get accused wrongly and get executed.

Whenever you think about laws like that one, think about "what if it happened to me?" first.

[Macropus]

On a side note, in my view those who can be proven have murdered with 100% intent should have the death penalty

There are many possible scenarios where killing someone is the only right thing to do.

[Osiris]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution

Kirk Bloodsworth was the first American to be freed from death row as a result of exoneration by DNA fingerprinting. Ray Krone is the 100th American to have been sentenced to death and then later exonerated.

In the UK, reviews prompted by the Criminal Cases Review Commission have resulted in one pardon and three exonerations for people that were executed between 1950 and 1953 (when the execution rate in England and Wales averaged 17 per year), with compensation being paid. Timothy Evans was granted a posthumous free pardon in 1966. Mahmood Hussein Mattan was convicted in 1952 and was the last person to be hanged in Cardiff, Wales, but had his conviction quashed in 1998. George Kelly was hanged at Liverpool in 1950, but had his conviction quashed by the Court of Appeal in June 2003.[21] Derek Bentley had his conviction quashed in 1998 with the appeal trial judge

Some specific cases

(click to show/hide)

Cameron Todd Willingham was executed February, 2004, for murdering his three young children by arson at the family home in Corsicana, Texas. Nationally known fire investigator Gerald Hurst reviewed the case documents, including the trial transcriptions and an hour-long videotape of the aftermath of the fire scene and said in December 2004 that "There's nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire. It was just a fire."[7] In 2010, the Innocence Project filed a lawsuit against the State of Texas, seeking a judgment of "official oppression

In the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence was destroyed

Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed February, 1992, for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March, 2004, cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months prior.[10] Immediately following the nun's murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant.[11] In both cases, black curly head hairs were found on the victims, linked to Rueda. Previously unidentified fingerprints in the nun's room were matched to Rueda. The flawed case is explored in a 2008 documentary entitled The Last Word.

Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and executed via electric chair May, 1990, in the state of Florida for the murders of two Florida Highway Patrol officers. The conviction of a co-defendant was overturned in 1992 after a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates <--- tell all these people that the death penalty is great. Im sure you would agree if one of these was your brother or friend or even you

[Butan]

Justice isnt conducted by omnipotent and all-seeing divine being, but by simple human with human flaws, so we have to accept an error margin. Some were killed/imprisoned and were innocent, some were released and were guilty, both situations are bad. The law and the justice cannot be based on a precautionary principle, else we can ban prison and all form of punishment.

If we weight lives against lives, how many of them has been lost by soft judgement? If there was 10 times more people dead by the hands of a former inmate, than innocent people executed, would that be enough of an argument?



Those sentences are also written by someone who would like to ban remand in custody, imprisoning someone who still hasnt been found guilty is wrong on so many levels. But as long as he has been found guilty why stop at life imprisonement is above my head.


If I love debating too much dont hesitate to tell me, I feel we may be going off-topic 

[Osiris]

Life imprisonment is one thing. You can be released and given compensation if later found innocent. You may lose a large part of your life and be a changed person but at least you will have the opportunity to be with friends family and have your name cleared and you can live in jail with the hope that one day you will be free.
Being executed is final. You execute the wrong man and there is no coming back from that.

Ideally execution would be great for some of the scum we have in our prisons but you have to be 100% sure they are guilty. 100% sure you have made no mistakes and that usually just isnt possible.

[Butan]

Usually a person who has been jailed for all this time have no friends, no family, no job and goes back to crime    Not to add that I would personaly prefer to die than being in prison for that long. This personal opinion lead me to this idea of execution>life in prison, but I cant impose my will on others 

[Osiris]

Usually a person who has been jailed for all this time have no friends, no family, no job and goes back to crime    Not to add that I would personaly prefer to die than being in prison for that long. This personal opinion lead me to this idea of execution>life in prison, but I cant impose my will on others 

sure but we are talking innocent people they don't go back to crime if they didn't commit it in the first place. And with the pay out they would get they will be set up for life.

[Prinz_Karl]

USA is shocking again when it's about injustice, like so many times, it's mainly the inability and unprofessionality of people who have responsible positions in the country. I feel sorry for everyone who had to endure it.

Talking about this I remember about one case where someone has been sentenced to death for "being angry and then killing his children by burning his house" (whereas the house just took fire accidently and the children couldn't be helped) or something and was declared innocent later. Which was the sentencing based on? A report of psychologists... .

USA always tops itself when they show how dangerous it can be if important jobs are done by retarded people.

[Gnjus]

Gnjus thinks he is trolling... Well, fine. 

Only a twisted sober Russian's mind like yours can mistake someone's sincere concern about safety of other members of this warm little community for trolling. What kind of a man are you, Macropussy ?


Anyway - I've heard that there was some heavy debating in Polish media about this for days and I wonder: what kind of debates ? I'd like to hear from the other side, are there really people who believe that this man repaid his debt to the society and should be released like that (considering the nature of his crime which was horrible, to say the least) ? Especially considering the psychiatric evaluation ? Shouldn't there be exception to the law for cases like this where the guy is 100% guilty and obviously dangerous for the society ? Not to mention the heavy costs of securing him from getting lynched which are down to tax payers I think ? Does it make sense ?