Lower the arrow weight..

[PsychoTwins]

The only problem with your argument Mac is that you are going against every melee my old friend and even some ranged.

The melee my old friends don't want to revert back to the old days where archers could kite like crazy and unfortunately they far outnumber the few ranged.

I myself don't want to have 9PD archers that can outrun me either simply because that would be like an xbow player's kite-ability without having to stop moving to reload.

[Tibe]

Tell me exactly why that is pointless please. Also I never said it was a realistic simulator..Please think before you type shit you sound so ignorant....

Im so glad you think you are a genius. And why did u make the weightcomparison between plate and the arrowquivers if you werent going for the realism argument? And San makes good points cause his in on the gamedevelopement. I can only state my personal experiences and so can u. Which means both of our posts can be discredited. Loads of stuff u stated before I can state were load of garbage aswell. Your bullshit can be just as easly discredited as mine.

[MacLeod_]

The only problem with your argument Mac is that you are going against every melee my old friend and even some ranged.

The melee my old friends don't want to revert back to the old days where archers could kite like crazy and unfortunately they far outnumber the few ranged.

I myself don't want to have 9PD archers that can outrun me either simply because that would be like an xbow player's kite-ability without having to stop moving to reload.

Well there is a slight difference a 9 pd archer will only have up to 6 ath total no more then that unless that archer is level 36 at 27/21. Also the speed bow builds are so weak that they can only tickle armor over 40. I would never use a nomad bow or anything under a yumi. Longbows have a 3.5 second ish draw time for you to run up and kill them before an archer fires.

Dedicated archers have no melee skills at all and hybrids that are good are rare. 9 PD archers have to trade off most or all melee skills to have that build,14 skill trade. Where xbows reload or not they can hold their shots when it is loaded,they are fast and they all have melee skills.

Im so glad you think you are a genius. And why did u make the weightcomparison between plate and the arrowquivers if you werent going for the realism argument? And San makes good points cause his in on the gamedevelopement. I can only state my personal experiences and so can u. Which means both of our posts can be discredited. Loads of stuff u stated before I can state were load of garbage aswell. Your bullshit can be just as easly discredited as mine.

I am not perfect and neither are you I should not of been such a dick to you. Sorry man I am just standing my ground,and I am not giving up on my ideas of this post. No matter what anyone says.

[Jack1]

Well I did archery on my stf for 3 maps last night and went 40-5....... I only stopped because I hate making the game as homosexual as the game can make it.

Macleod, I honestly don't think you understand exactly what the strengths and weaknesses of ranged are and why the changes to the game that were made, well, were made. One ranged would be able to kill an unlimited number of enemies while leaving them no chance whatsoever to fight back. Tell me one different class that has that ability and also tell me why you want your class buffed when, for once, I think it is finally balanced.

Edit: you also want 9pd archers to be able to kite, go suck yourself.

[MacLeod_]

Well I did archery on my stf for 3 maps last night and went 40-5....... I only stopped because I hate making the game as homosexual as the game can make it.

Macleod, I honestly don't think you understand exactly what the strengths and weaknesses of ranged are and why the changes to the game that were made, well, were made. One ranged would be able to kill an unlimited number of enemies while leaving them no chance whatsoever to fight back. Tell me one different class that has that ability and also tell me why you want your class buffed when, for once, I think it is finally balanced.

Edit: you also want 9pd archers to be able to kite, go suck yourself.

You have stated your opinion ty jack.

[Tydeus]

My level 32 archer has only 6 athletics with its 18/24 build and I'm able to outrun most people, even without dropping my bow. Generally by the time I get into a position where I have to run, I have already gone through one stack of arrows, meaning I now have less weight than nearly all infantry players.

[MacLeod_]

My level 32 archer has only 6 athletics with its 18/24 build and I'm able to outrun most people, even without dropping my bow. Generally by the time I get into a position where I have to run, I have already gone through one stack of arrows, meaning I now have less weight than nearly all infantry players.

Not everyone is as bad ass as you. You can't balance skill 

[Strudog]

Not everyone is as bad ass as you. You can't balance skill 

So you are saying you are bad? So that means it does not come down to balance? so 'You can't balance Skill' is not a valid point you make. So all you other arguments are ' i can't outrun anyone, balance the game because i am unable to do so', So in fact you are in fact asking to balance the game for your shortcomings?? Whereas every other archer can outrun most melee.

What is your build?

[MacLeod_]

So you are saying you are bad? So that means it does not come down to balance? so 'You can't balance Skill' is a valid point you make. So all you other arguments are ' i can't outrun anyone, balance the game because i am unable to do so', So in fact you are in fact asking to balance the game for your shortcomings?? Whereas every other archer can outrun most melee.

What is your build?

No I am not bad. When I am playing well I am usually on the top 5 depending on the map. I have to play my ass off to do that and I don't expect other archers can do the same especially new ones. There is about 2-4 archers in NA I notice,that can do that efficiently. They die like me by cavalry,agilitys or just 7 athletic plate guys. It is not easy playing a pure archer and tydues with his 18/18 build cant make balance judgments on one build as well,that is imo.

Other archers have to use 12/24 too 18/24 just to run. I am a pure archer build 24/18 atm. 5 athlectics.

[jtobiasm]

I am a pure archer build 24/18 atm. 5 athlectics.

There is your problem, use 18/24 or 18/27. No problem kiting if you're aware enough.

P.S Arrows being lowered by 2-3 would be great just for the acceleration. wink wink

[Tydeus]

The thing is, every PD gives you 14% damage, so you having a 24/18 build, as opposed to my 18/24, that means you gain 28% damage over me. Twenty-eight percent. Thats equivalent to 3 and a half points of powerstrike. On top of this though, you're also gaining an increase to your effective projectile speed, which increases your accuracy. Of course, that's offset by the wpf per pd penalty, but nonetheless still exists.

Also, I've been playing with 27/15 lately. My first map played with the build, with 70 people playing on na1, I went 16:4(after tking twice on the first round ending with 0:0:1 score).

[Strudog]

No I am not bad. When I am playing well I am usually on the top 5 depending on the map. I have to play my ass off to do that and I don't expect other archers can do the same especially new ones. There is about 2-4 archers in NA I notice,that can do that efficiently. They die like me by cavalry,agilitys or just 7 athletic plate guys. It is not easy playing a pure archer and tydues with his 18/18 build cant make balance judgments on one build as well,that is imo.

Other archers have to use 12/24 too 18/24 just to run. I am a pure archer build 24/18 atm. 5 athlectics.

there lies your problem, most melee have 6-7 athletics these days, you only have 6, meaning that they can hun you down, if you were playing 18/24, then you would easily be able to run away. But you chose power over manoeuvrability. So don't complain about not being able to run away when your build hinders it.

[MacLeod_]

there lies your problem, most melee have 6-7 athletics these days, you only have 6, meaning that they can hun you down, if you were playing 18/24, then you would easily be able to run away. But you chose power over manoeuvrability. So don't complain about not being able to run away when your build hinders it.

I don't care if i have 2 athletics it doesn't change my point. I am talking about the weight of the arrows not myself,and you can't tell me what to do you are not my dad.

The thing is, every PD gives you 14% damage, so you having a 24/18 build, as opposed to my 18/24, that means you gain 28% damage over me. Twenty-eight percent. Thats equivalent to 3 and a half points of powerstrike. On top of this though, you're also gaining an increase to your effective projectile speed, which increases your accuracy. Of course, that's offset by the wpf per pd penalty, but nonetheless still exists.

Also, I've been playing with 27/15 lately. My first map played with the build, with 70 people playing on na1, I went 16:4(after tking twice on the first round ending with 0:0:1 score).

Not everyone is as good as you. You can't judge balance because you are a good player,factor in a regular player. How many archers do you see when you play on NA 1 go 16k 4d? Or is it 16:4 kd ratio? Melee get shot they bitch. It is us Archer's turn now. 

[PsychoTwins]

Not everyone is as good as you. You can't judge balance because you are a good player,factor in a regular player. How many archers do you see when you play on NA 1 go 16k 4d? Or is it 16:4 kd ratio?

Well imagine how much melee would be buffed if we factored in all the average melee players that go 0-4. Sure I would agree that there are more skilled melee around than skilled archers, but in pure ratios the average melee player skill is less than the average archer skill simply because there are more melee playing that can be bad at the game.

[Grumbs]

I don't care if i have 2 athletics it doesn't change my point. I am talking about the weight of the arrows not myself,and you can't tell me what to do you are not my dad.

Not everyone is as good as you. You can't judge balance because you are a good player,factor in a regular player. How many archers do you see when you play on NA 1 go 16k 4d? Or is it 16:4 kd ratio? Melee get shot they bitch. It is us Archer's turn now. 

Archers weight can't be balanced based on someone using 2 Athletics because you have to consider how fast they will be with typical builds, or they will be able to deal damage without being put under pressure

You have to balance with player skill in mind because you have to think about how the better player will perform with them as well as bad players. ATM if a very good melee player wants to try a xbow build for eg, he will rape in both long range gameplay and in short range. The xbows seem to be balanced based on anyone being able to pick up and play them well. An easy class for newcomer to get a feel for the game etc. The problem is that if you have a low skill floor (easy to learn) then you need to have a low skill ceiling where going past a certain point the effectiveness won't ever get higher and other items that take more skill surpass them. In games like CoD you have "newb tubes" that have a low skill floor but pro's won't touch them because other equipment is simply better when you get past being a newbie. In cRPG we have newb tubes that start off good and then scale comparatively with higher skill equipment, or stuff that has higher risk involved/less versatile