Bring back Ladders, Seriously..

[Tanken]

Whoever upvoted this either forgot what was it really like either is ranged.

But you forget that we had no remedy for this. Read my suggestions, you will see that we can have the best of both worlds, all it needs is the devs and balancers taking what I said into consideration and formulating a plan that everyone is comfortable with. These are just a basis for the argument to bring them back. Trust me, I am not ranged nor is 95% of my clan--but this Mod is missing this element of gameplay. It needs something like this back, and we have these old glorious items collecting dust and decay yet they could bring a whole new level of enjoyment back to the mod especially because there is a built in counter to this now.

Also, if you are downvoting me as opposed to using the poll; Go fuck yourself with a ladder.

[Kafein]

you see...

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Flags won't change the fact that ladders bring nothing to anybody except people that camp roofs. I prefer to be able to use cover, thank you.

[XyNox]

I would really like to see ladders back but at the same time I cant forget what they did to siege. Even if there were just 4 attackers working together and ninja cap the flag 4 times in a row with ladders, defenders would still not adapt and will continue to fight at the front walls. It made maplayouts pointless in some cases.

You're right Tank, didn't read OP carefully enough. My apologies.

I also think the team destroying their own ladders should be addressed. Perhaps make ladders unable to be destroyed by the team that threw it. Makes breaking ladders to otherwise inaccessible areas the folly of the other team (and hilarious if it happens).

Sadly people would abuse this to troll their team as in blocking passages, trapping teammates etc.

[Tanken]

I would really like to see ladders back but at the same time I cant forget what they did to siege. Even if there were just 4 attackers working together and ninja cap the flag 4 times in a row with ladders, defenders would still not adapt and will continue to fight at the front walls. It made maplayouts pointless in some cases.

Sadly people would abuse this to troll their team as in blocking passages, trapping teammates etc.

Refer to my original post, I said they would not work for Siege at this given time due to lower population in Siege and the current layout of most maps.

[Life]

Refer to my original post, I said they would not work for Siege at this given time due to lower population in Siege and the current layout of most maps.

actually, its just NA siege thats dead. EU siege is well alive. Lucky EU's.

[CrazyCracka420]

Whoever upvoted this either forgot what was it really like either is ranged.

I didn't forget what it was like, and I am not/was not ranged.  MOTF negates archers camping rooftops.

I also like  San's suggestion, where only the enemy team can break the ladder (But I doubt that's possible).  Or only allowing a certain amount of ladders to be thrown at any given time (like how Strat limits the amount of ladders that can be thrown and ladders thrown afterwards just disappear). 

[protox2k]

And let it be possible to loom ladders to add more hitpoints to it

[Kafein]

I didn't forget what it was like, and I am not/was not ranged.  MOTF negates archers camping rooftops.

You are saying ladders will not hurt. That's not true. They will hurt regardless, making some classes invulnerable to others and able to attack almost anywhere on the map at the same time. Said classes don't need any help getting to vantage points anyway at the moment. Which brings me to my second point: what is the positive impact of ladders? Would I use ladders? No I wouldn't, what is the use of a ladder to me, or any melee or cav player for that matter? Bringing back ladders would be a purely negative change.

But hey whatever, add ladders to battle mode, I don't really care. Maybe that will actually bring more melee and less ranged to siege.

[CrazyCracka420]

Well for the most part I don't even really like maps that have buildings in them.  I think those are "siege" maps to me, not battle maps.  Battle maps are open field maps, that require use of terrain if you want to get any advantages over your enemy (and obviously teamwork/tactics/formations, etc). 

Adding ladders is going to get archers off the ground and less vulnerable to me (lancer cav), so that's a negative for me, positive for them. 

There's nothing that would benefit me from archers being able to go on rooftops, it would only hurt my chances to kill them.  I still think it should be brought back because MOTF should (in theory) allow melee to win rounds if archers want to camp on a rooftop. 

[Life]

You are saying ladders will not hurt. That's not true. They will hurt regardless, making some classes invulnerable to others and able to attack almost anywhere on the map at the same time. Said classes don't need any help getting to vantage points anyway at the moment. Which brings me to my second point: what is the positive impact of ladders? Would I use ladders? No I wouldn't, what is the use of a ladder to me, or any melee or cav player for that matter? Bringing back ladders would be a purely negative change.

But hey whatever, add ladders to battle mode, I don't really care. Maybe that will actually bring more melee and less ranged to siege.

Well, archers can't use ladders, most already have full slots.
So, if you wanted to help out your team, you could bring a ladder (since you are a melee player you most likely have a spare slot or 2), place it on a nice roof to get some cover fire.

What would YOU get outta that? Maybe because of that well strategically placed ladder of yours, you could win the round and you gain a multi.

[Kafein]

Well, archers can't use ladders, most already have full slots.
So, if you wanted to help out your team, you could bring a ladder (since you are a melee player you most likely have a spare slot or 2), place it on a nice roof to get some cover fire.

What would YOU get outta that? Maybe because of that well strategically placed ladder of yours, you could win the round and you gain a multi.

Or, I don't be an asshole to the other players and let ranged scum deal with their own problems. I'm always there if they need to be shield bashed down those rooftops if need be.

This is called cooperation. If every sane player does the same, we all win.

[Teeth]

For those who still haven't realized it, on the subject of ladders there is a strong correlation between having a positive opinion of ladders and being NA, similarly there is a strong correlation between having a negative opinion of ladders and being EU.

The removal of deployable ladders is literally my most celebrated change in the history of this mod and there are many people who agree with me. As far as I know we have more archers and crossbowmen on this side of the pond and I have heard many an NA say our archers are better. I think our ranged are also bigger my old friends on average. Ladders on EU were unbearable. I don't see how giving ranged relative immunity from infantry and complete immunity from cav is in any way a justifiable piece of game design, reducing any round to capture the flag is not a solution whatsoever for my experience with ladders. Seeing as you all believe it is confirms my believe that NA's experience with ladders is something quite different from the turd we have had here.

In short, you won't understand our opinion, we won't understand your opinion. Don't bother arguing about it please. Give NA ladders for all I care, but keep them the fuck out of EU.

[Grumbs]

Ladders could be great fun and made the maps more dynamic and added more tactical options for players.

But ranged made them something that should never be reintroduced to Battle unless we had some kind of cap on ranged. Flags aren't going to change the situation, you will still get the laziest players that don't care about anything but their own amusement, shooting people that don't shoot back while in a nearly inaccessible place

[dynamike]

I like the idea, especially with the addendums that San and zagibu made:

Limiting the ladder height, availability and especially increasing slots will make the use of them a real teamwork undertaking. Think about it: archers with a longbow and 2 sets of arrows (or a smaller bow and a melee weapon) will hardly have any slots left to bring a ladder and need to rely on their team to bring one along.

The team members having slots available to carry ladders will likely be melee heroes and will only bring them if they see a benefit in getting their team into advantageous spots. Again, this encourages teamwork and would be reducing the large amounts of team members running off on their own.

I'd say let's give it a shot, it's always good to switch things up once in a while.

[Latvian]

signed,
entire community.