Are the scimitars still competitive with the invigorated stabbing swords?

[owens]

Vote in the poll leave comments and ideas below.

[Kafein]

Maybe. Basically no. They were the best 1h cut weapons before, now 1h straight swords are on par with them.

[musketer]

No.

[owens]

Kafein I tend to agree

Although they are slightly behind stats wise however I cant think of a buff that wouldn't make them overpowered.


I like the elite scimitar. In fact it is my favorite sword behind "arming sword"

[San]

^Pretty much, Owens. Talked about it before in IRC but there's just no room to change anything, and they're still weapons that are good at everything minus the stab. Personally, the lack of stab helps me swing easier since I tend to look down so I could see opponents' swings better, making it an accidental stab with most other weapons.

[Grumbs]

1 hand stab buffs were just poorly concieved. If stabbing is an issue with other weapons why then add it to 1 handers for "balance"? Fix the route cause of the stab problems rather than add it to 1 handers too

1 handers are supposed to be fast short range low damage weapons because of the shield. Now they are fast, good damage, long range and have the silly stab. Its a global buff to ranged as well

[Kafein]

1 hand stab buffs were just poorly concieved. If stabbing is an issue with other weapons why then add it to 1 handers for "balance"? Fix the route cause of the stab problems rather than add it to 1 handers too

1 handers are supposed to be fast short range low damage weapons because of the shield. Now they are fast, good damage, long range and have the silly stab. Its a global buff to ranged as well

1h stabs before this change were a suicide button. This was a problem on its own that needed to be fixed, unrelated to the state of other stabs. The current situation of all stabs being broken or very powerful in their own way is not ideal, but definitely better than whatever we had before.

Besides, when you say 1h are "fast, good damage, long range", what do you compare them to? Because if you are comparing 1h to 2h or polearms, what you are saying is the exact opposite of the truth.

[Grumbs]

With right swing and stab I have good range with 1 handers and agi, more than it should be for such fast weapons imo. 1 handers should not even compete with poles and 2 handers for reach, that is not their role.

Rather than fixing stabs (if they were broken) they made another broken stab for 1 handers, its stupid. Fix the problems rather than break it even more so every class has the ridiculous stabs

[Phew]

My thoughts on scimitars:

You only give up 1 cut damage to get a very powerful stab (Elite Scimitar->Italian Sword), so most people would rather get the stab. Some people have problems blocking the curved model, so that's worth something too, but I don't think it makes a big difference nowadays (I spent some time on duel with a +3 Elite Scimitar a while ago, and people seemed to block it as often as the straight swords).

In my opinion, if you are going to give up stab, you should get more than 1 swing damage in return. 3d 1h weapons like the Military Cleaver, Broad 1h Axe, Spathovaklion, and Liuyedao get Massive Cut Damage, Shield Breaking, Knockdown, and Crazy Speed (respectively), which are worth giving up a stab for.

[Kafein]

With right swing and stab I have good range with 1 handers and agi, more than it should be for such fast weapons imo. 1 handers should not even compete with poles and 2 handers for reach, that is not their role.

They simply don't. Agility can compensate for the reach disadvantage, though. Hence why many 1h players invest a lot of points into agility otherwise they are doomed to be s keyed 24/7 which is annoying. Get the same agi as them, and you have your reach advantage back in full. Other than that, timing is often very important, to the point it also does compensate a reach disadvantage quite effectively. I'm not telling you to l2p timing because I know you are already good, I'm just telling you that 1h have been forced to invent ways around their low reach, which ended up being quite effective. Which is not to be confused with 1h having good reach, because other classes can use those tricks too. Also their "role" is to be 1 or 0 slot and be usable with shield, not much else.

Rather than fixing stabs (if they were broken) they made another broken stab for 1 handers, its stupid. Fix the problems rather than break it even more so every class has the ridiculous stabs

They were even more broken before, but they were broken in the direction of suck, which made them quite an unadvertised issue, because nobody was using them anyway. The latest change improved balance and improved the "unbroken-ness" of stabs, but now we need a new pass (which Tydeus is working on or has already finished) to bring them all more in line with swings, now that all stabs are too powerful.

[Grumbs]

Reach is a function of speed as well as physical reach. This is what made the Longsword so good for so long. If your hit lands faster because of agi, weapon speed and animation speed the lower physical reach becomes quite unimportant

This is what makes it too good imo, the speed, the reach and the damage all combine for something thats just too good, especially when any ranged can use them too

[Kafein]

Reach is a function of speed as well as physical reach. This is what made the Longsword so good for so long. If your hit lands faster because of agi, weapon speed and animation speed the lower physical reach becomes quite unimportant

This is what makes it too good imo, the speed, the reach and the damage all combine for something thats just too good, especially when any ranged can use them too

The only difference between 2h and 1h is the amount of slots, usability with shields and animation set (and thrust stun). How many damage, speed and length points is that worth ? Not that much in my opinion. That 1h are statistically worse in every way with speed being kind of a difficult one to evaluate with all the crazy stuff going on, is normal. But by how much, that is the question. Essentially, how much is a shield worth?

[Tydeus]

Essentially, how much is a shield worth?

Dunno, let's remove shields and find out.

[Kafein]

Dunno, let's remove shields and find out.

Wouldn't affect me too much.

[WITCHCRAFT]

Scimitars have good speed, good range, and good swing damage. Side sword and long espada come close but have 3-4 less damage. They also cost more.

Since scimitars are curved, they also benefit from ghost reach (weapon hitbox is a straight rectangle, hits towards the end of the blade connect before the scimitar model does). That isn't represented in the stats, but is important regarding balancing. Players aren't bots, they will misjudge the swings in the heat of battle.