Poll

Reduce speed bonus for 1h cav

Yes
57 (52.3%)
No
52 (47.7%)

Total Members Voted: 108

Author Topic: Nerf 1h cav damage.  (Read 21002 times)

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Offline ROHYPNOL

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2014, 11:12:41 pm »
+3
Hahaha. The thing is those 2hand weapon stats are a lie on horseback. They lose roughly 25 percent of the damage

So a +3 Longsword is actually around 30 cut when used on horseback.  A +3 Arabian Cavalry Sword is 36 cut.

That's kind of fucking retarded. Then add using a shield on top of it and all that provides.

I don't get why that penalty exists in the first place. Not having a shield is a penalty in itself.

I don't really mind 1hand or 2hand cav, but the ACS is probably overpowered, and I only think 1hand cav is BS when I think about that weapon and how much damage it does, on top of its reach. Its way better than HBS or Longsword from horseback, which makes no sense.

I get what you are saying. In general I am talking about all around ability. It costs less points for a 2h cav hero than it does 1h cav --- with a shield. Smoothrich none of those 1hers compare to a morningstar. Also arabian cav sword is pretty shit on the ground , so it should be stronger from horseback, compared to all the other ones that are more balanced. It is an all around shit 1h weapon for a good melee player. Morningstar on the other hand just simply fucking rapes. Just wear decent armor and you are fine. Now you see as if morningstars were not already the strongest weapon of any kind from horseback they went ahead and added and 2h long iron mace you can use from horseback. Mw it does 35b with knockdown, shit is cray. Also those 2h axes from horseback do a fuck ton more damage than any 1her can do from horseback. I am not saying 2h cav needs nerfed but im saying it definitely has more powerful weapons from horseback to use, if no one can see that, then they are fucking blind...
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2014, 11:33:15 pm »
+3
I believe the bastard sword type weapons should have their base stats nerfed and be much, much better with a shield and on horseback, making their main selling point versatility and not that they are better than any other sword in the game at just about everything a sword does.

Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2014, 11:35:41 pm »
+4
Anybody notice that its 95% EU players complaining about this shit? NA doesn't have this problem. There are like three people that actually play 1h cav in NA. Seriously. I think to myself "who are the dedicated 1h cav players?", and nothing noteworthy really comes to mind. Nobody can name five 1h cav that are a big problem and wreck people unreasonably well and without skill in NA, because people hardly fucking play the class when I'm in the server.

Also fucking Jesus this forum is like an echo chamber of retarded cries for nerfs. You can't be posting in one thread saying "OMG 2 MUCH FKING RANGED FIX IT DEVS" and concurrently come to this thread and ask for cavalry to be nerfed. You chucklefucks don't understand a system of balances. Have it one fucking way or the other you ass blasting shitmasters.

@ Smoothbitch the arabian CAVALRY sword is stronger on horseback in comparison to something like the longsword because it SUCKS DICK ONCE YOU GET DEHORSED.

The thing that in Strat 4 was the easy way to super huge turbo mcdonalds mode KDR wasn't 1h cav, it was 2h morningstar cav a la Jack1 or Devilize style.

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« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 12:46:26 am by GOBBLIN KING GREAT LEADER »

Offline San

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2014, 01:24:08 am »
+2
I think if we can have variable lance angle based on length for polearms, lancer cav aren't completely hopeless if they get stuck/stopped by enemy cav.  They can switch to a shorter polearm while dropping their lance. I think lancers have it easier against 1h cav head on, it's only risky if the horse can tank the hit and you miss stunning the rider. Shorter polearms would also be more adept at archer hunting since you have better precision with your stab.

I think 2h cav has better power for less speed. The best 2h cav weapons can still be used with a shield and sheathed appropriately. I can't really see how 1h cav is that much better than 2h cav and vice versa.

Offline owens

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2014, 02:27:50 am »
+2
Edit:

San when you have a shield drawn (talking about 2h cav hear) you use 1h wpf. With the 23.5%? decrease in damage a MW longsword is dealing only 31 cut. The reach is no better than the arab cav sword.


I suppose the highest damage 2H at 51 cut will deal around 39 cut damage.... The speed bonus however is much higher due to its low! speed.



If this isn't how 2H from horseback works please correct me
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 05:05:46 am by owens »
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2014, 02:32:16 am »
+3
(click to show/hide)
If this isn't how 2H from horseback works please correct me
If nothing has changed, the weapon penalty is:

    if (weapon_type == 'two_handed' or weapon_type == 'polearm') and (has_shield or mounted):
            raw_damage *= 0.85
           
            if weapon_type == 'polearm':
                    raw_damage *= 0.85
           
            if weapon_flags & itp_two_handed:
                    raw_damage *= 0.9


That means it should be 0.85 * 0.9, or 23.5%
(click to show/hide)
23.5% not 30%. My bardiche would do 36 damage (same as arabian) at +3. Not bad, considering it's much cheaper and way better on foot.

Personally I prefer my Bardiche or Longsword over most/all 1handers while riding, ven when I got shieldskill. There are certain things that are just more powerful as 2h cav than 1h cav.
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Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2014, 09:10:14 am »
+1
Please make it so 1h sword can also shoot beams when the rider is at full health.
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Offline pingpong

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2014, 03:10:53 pm »
+1
I can't really see how 1h cav is that much better than 2h cav and vice versa.
Its that magic shield forcefield, i cant even tell how many times i have been saved from dehorsing just by turning my shield and bam it magically protects my horse from hits.
Not that effective against 2h or 1h hits but polearm stabs never get through to your horse if you block facing the pikeguy.

Only rearing the horse or stabbing the side near the back legs or horseys butt work if cav player has his shield up and is facing towards you.

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2014, 04:10:07 pm »
+5
Its that magic shield forcefield, i cant even tell how many times i have been saved from dehorsing just by turning my shield and bam it magically protects my horse from hits.
Not that effective against 2h or 1h hits but polearm stabs never get through to your horse if you block facing the pikeguy.

Only rearing the horse or stabbing the side near the back legs or horseys butt work if cav player has his shield up and is facing towards you.

News flash, you can do that by manually blocking down with any weapon from horse back.  The forcefield of all blocks on horseback is crazy, not just with shields.
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Offline Rebelyell

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2014, 05:01:56 pm »
0
23.5% not 30%. My bardiche would do 36 damage (same as arabian) at +3. Not bad, considering it's much cheaper and way better on foot.

Personally I prefer my Bardiche or Longsword over most/all 1handers while riding, ven when I got shieldskill. There are certain things that are just more powerful as 2h cav than 1h cav.
yea that 50% speed of 1h weapons....
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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2014, 08:07:54 pm »
+4
i can legit say Long iron mace from cataphract with 8 ps = best cav. It does tons of damage and has knockdown :D strolling past someone really slowly whack and they ass is on the floor.
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2014, 07:46:44 am »
+1
I get what you are saying. In general I am talking about all around ability. It costs less points for a 2h cav hero than it does 1h cav --- with a shield. Smoothrich none of those 1hers compare to a morningstar. Also arabian cav sword is pretty shit on the ground , so it should be stronger from horseback, compared to all the other ones that are more balanced. It is an all around shit 1h weapon for a good melee player. Morningstar on the other hand just simply fucking rapes. Just wear decent armor and you are fine. Now you see as if morningstars were not already the strongest weapon of any kind from horseback they went ahead and added and 2h long iron mace you can use from horseback. Mw it does 35b with knockdown, shit is cray. Also those 2h axes from horseback do a fuck ton more damage than any 1her can do from horseback. I am not saying 2h cav needs nerfed but im saying it definitely has more powerful weapons from horseback to use, if no one can see that, then they are fucking blind...

Yeah I agree on most of that, but the thing is even 50 cut weapons that are 2handers end up doing just the same or slightly more damage than an Arabian Cavalry Sword, which just seems a little crazy to me.

I agree the best part of 2hand cav is that it frees up more stat points though since you don't need shield and can be a better infantry player, but this matters less once you get to super high levels which a lot of players are.

Long iron mace being usable on horseback is fucking retarded, though. Way better infantry weapon than those bardiches and axes in 2hand class. Need 2 get me one of those.

Honestly I think cav balance is pretty good and I've played the fuck out of all of them, but shields on horseback blocking attacks from behind and below the shield has been and still is really stupid and annoying.

And the ACS is really, really strong. NA strat battles almost never had them but EU always did and they hit so hard, you can 1-2 shot people in plate just like a morningstar on top of having way more reach. They aren't bad in melee either (against bads, not good duels) if you just abuse the monster right swing of it either, or overhead in ganks to killsteal.

I think if we can have variable lance angle based on length for polearms, lancer cav aren't completely hopeless if they get stuck/stopped by enemy cav.  They can switch to a shorter polearm while dropping their lance. I think lancers have it easier against 1h cav head on, it's only risky if the horse can tank the hit and you miss stunning the rider. Shorter polearms would also be more adept at archer hunting since you have better precision with your stab.

I think 2h cav has better power for less speed. The best 2h cav weapons can still be used with a shield and sheathed appropriately. I can't really see how 1h cav is that much better than 2h cav and vice versa.


Lance angle doesn't need to be changed, I'd say. Its really fucking strong and effective just the way it is. You buff lances anymore and you will just get an obnoxious fucking swarm of heavy cav with +3 heavy lances lolthrusting and couching everyone which is almost as obnoxious as stacked ranged. Good lancers already can handle CQC with other horses by looking up and pikewiggling the lance down, or avoid that entirely by actually knowing how to ride. Besides, we all know cav tend to ignore other cav and just gank infantry all day, and the lance is easily the best at that (at least against aware targets).

2hand cav doesn't really have better power though if it works like I think. The morningstar is probably the hardest hitting 2hander from horseback and every 1hander just uses those with a shield as a 1hander anyways and from what I can tell the damage is the same as using it with no shield in 2hander mode.

I think the only real advantage 2hand cav has over 1hand cav is that you get to be a baller 2hander when you get dismounted and can rack up kills easier in a chaotic situation surrounded by enemies.
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Offline San

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2014, 05:06:36 pm »
+2
I was thinking in lines of the spear class weapons, although I am aware of all the tricks you mentioned. Either way, I recently learned that such a thing for lance angle isn't possible to change.


I'm just not convinced of the penalty being that terrible for 2h cav. I may try some damage tests and see what comes up compared to 1h cav for both 2h/1h split weapons and 2h only compared to 1h.

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2014, 12:22:29 am »
+5
Double post, but some 2h cav damage. Was going to test with a variety of weapons, but... need I say more? Thanks for letting me look into the lack of damage penalty, Smoothrich.

http://imgur.com/a/ft7TZ

+0 heavy bastard sword, 5PS, 141 effective wpf in 2h.

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Offline Jarlek

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Re: Nerf 1h cav damage.
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2014, 01:13:22 am »
+2
Double post, but some 2h cav damage. Was going to test with a variety of weapons, but... need I say more? Thanks for letting me look into the lack of damage penalty, Smoothrich.

http://imgur.com/a/ft7TZ

+0 heavy bastard sword, 5PS, 141 effective wpf in 2h.

(click to show/hide)
Well, this explains why I always felt like I did more damage with my 2h weapons than 1h weapons, despite the damage penalty.
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