Overall Balance Poll : Q1 2014 (VOTE AGAIN, POLL UPDATED)

[Elindor]

OVERALL BALANCE POLL : Q1 2014  *** VOTE AGAIN, POLL UPDATED ***

Thought it would be interesting to see what the population thought at this point about the overall balance between weapon classes.
I think things are largely balanced at this point, but there's always room for improvement. 

A poll like this which combines so many different opinions helps avoid bias this way or that from individuals.

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If I had to list any balance tweaks that I would suggest they would be these though:

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- 2h price increases was good, those were finesse weapons that were not easily or cheaply crafted in medieval times.
- Crossbows should reload a bit slower (not to the point of realism which some suggest was around 2 shots/minute but a bit slower than they are right now.
- Throwing, not sure what the solution is, but seems they do a bit too much damage compared to other forms of ranged.
- Archery needs a "notched mode" (have mentioned it before) which allows them to preload their bow but then penalizes them heavily in movement speed and turn speed when in this mode (and would take more time to switch to another weapon, leaving the archer vulnerable). This would also help with the kiting issue and weights on arrows etc could be reduced if need be.
- Heavy and long weapons still need to be slowed down some / made unbalanced (unbalanced could be tweaked also to have more of an effect).
- In line with that change, many polearms should be unbalanced, etc.  These are thick, long wooden shafts with metal blades on the end, lot of inertia going on there.  I know I know, no one likes that kind of talk...

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Just some thoughts. 
Main focus of this is the poll....as mentioned, anyone's individual thoughts are biased even if they try not to be.

[Sari]

Which xbows are you asking to be 2 shots per minute? Most rounds end in least 1 to 1 1/2 minutes. My MW hunting xbow takes 10 seconds to reload(on horseback with 62 wpf).

So the "notch mode" for bows, can you activate it or is it just there?

[Jona]

He was saying that in real life that is how slow crossbows could be, not saying that in-game should be that slow.


From another thread that mentioned the unbalanced polearm issue:

Elegant poleaxe seems pretty balanced to me.
It is fairly long and held pretty high up and has metal at the bottom to even the weight:

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Thanks for pointing this out... the leverage you get from holding a polearm higher up allow you far more control over the otherwise heavy weapon. Also, the axe blade on polearms that were used for combat is not nearly as unwieldy as you might expect. These weapons were designed for the battlefield, not for chopping wood. The blades on the axe were far thinner than anything you would use to chop wood with. The 1 handed hatchet would more likely be unbalanced than any poleaxe. It is a shame, however, than the models for the long axe, long war axe, and great axe tend to look more like oversized wood-chopping axes and yes, based upon the model should perhaps all be unbalanced, super slow, and also have at least 10 more damage each. But due to balance and fun coming before reality, it is not so.

[Elindor]

Which xbows are you asking to be 2 shots per minute? Most rounds end in least 1 to 1 1/2 minutes. My MW hunting xbow takes 10 seconds to reload(on horseback with 62 wpf).

So the "notch mode" for bows, can you activate it or is it just there?

If you read more carefully I mention that 2 shots per min would be terrible for gameplay, and that I do not suggest that.

Notched mode would be activated.

[Elindor]

I hear you Jona about the blades, but the wooden shafts to be viable in combat were still rather thick.  I played lacrosse growing up and I am old enough that when I first started, some people still used wooden shafts instead of the titanium and other composite metals that replaced them.  They were heavy, and only around 5-6 ft long....if I extrapolate that to even longer and put a metal head on it, there is a lot of inertia there, definitely more than a lighter more balanced weapon like most swords, and yet the speed/maneuverability of the polearms seems just as high.

[Shaksie]

Agree on all counts apart from unbalanced; I think they are already too penalized.
It's pretty much impossible to feint well with them (yes, I can feint with them but not quickly enough for them to be very hard to block, they just surprise people for the first few times) and pretty well every time I try to feint but it doesn't work, I will appear to feint but will actually swing.
I think there should be grades of unbalance, ranging from impossible to stop your swing once it starts to being able to stop it until almost the very end. Also, I think there needs to be some incentive to use them. Generally they are horrid for dueling which is kind of silly, I would personally love to use an unbalanced looking weapon but none of them work. Maybe they could give some additional slow when people are hit by them or if they block them, so that they are better for kicking/nudging or something like that.
In M:BG I very much think combat should be more bash (aka nudge) based which would allow large weapons to be usable in 1v1 situations. At the moment they are only effective if you sneak up on people or are supporting/supported by others. Or unless you are fighting against someone that sucks, but I don't think that's very reasonable for the weapon to be good vs crap people.
Regardless, the 2nd part MUST be fixed.

Also, I may well be wrong but I would have thought a sword would be significantly more heavy than an axe in real life. Seeing that the sword is completely metal and the metal not being very good at the time, you couldn't make them very thin so there would be quite a lot. Compare this to an axe which has a relatively very small piece of metal atop a substantially lighter wood handle, and I would've thought the axe would be more powerful, lighter (thus maybe faster?) but less wieldy than a sword

[Duster]

Please add a " I think the game is fine as it is" option, because I really don't have a problem with any one class. It only starts to get frustrating with things like ranged or cav in groups.

[Elindor]

Please add a " I think the game is fine as it is" option...

Added.

[Dionysus]

This isn't really a matter of game balance as it is just an oversight, but the throwing lance is a really melee-capable weapon that utilizes some ghost reach. The war spear also has some slight ghost reach, but I think that can be solved with just a simple re-measurement of the model. The throwing lance, however, does not seem like it is properly represented by the model, and I have a feeling it's because of the way it is held. I don't know enough about the technicalities of modeling and hit detection, so maybe I'm just spewing a bunch of bullshit.

Here is a very accurate and scientific model of the shenanigans I'm talking about.

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Notice the red line. That is the danger zone (I put it in red because it looks scarier that way).

[Jona]

Eli, the poleaxes are at most 142 cm long... 6ft converts to about 183 cm. And not only that, but a good 5-6 inches on either end are really skinny spikes. I am sure the wood is solid and pretty hefty, but it isn't exactly that long or wide.

Also comparing the weight of poleaxes to some of the larger 2handers shows that if anything more 2handers need to be unbalanced, but shouldn't be for gameplay reasons. The amount of leverage you get from holding it the polearm way compared to the 2hand way is incredibly useful.

This isn't really a matter of game balance as it is just an oversight, but the throwing lance is a really melee-capable weapon that utilizes some ghost reach. The war spear also has some slight ghost reach, but I think that can be solved with just a simple re-measurement of the model. The throwing lance, however, does not seem like it is properly represented by the model, and I have a feeling it's because of the way it is held. I don't know enough about the technicalities of modeling and hit detection, so maybe I'm just spewing a bunch of bullshit.

Personally I am not sure if the war spear has ghost reach or not, simply because the model is so skinny, long, and the speed is quite high. I just can't tell where it is. Does it have ghost reach? Maybe... but in order for me to tell I would first need to have an actual idea of where the weapon model ended in the first place! I tend to fight war spear users like I fight flamberge users... just always assume you are within range, and always block.

[Piok]

Stab attack deserves own topic in Poll

[Macropus]

Lol, so many people vote for throwing is OP?
Ah, right. NA.

(But seriously, I really hope throwing will become viable on strat, would be epic).

[bagge]

Ranged in general is op. Especially against high armor.. 8 shots with the second highest damage dealing bow is NOT enough.

Save the melee, save the world

[Strudog]

Lol, so many people vote for throwing is OP?
Ah, right. NA.

(But seriously, I really hope throwing will become viable on strat, would be epic).

Throwing is viable on strat, and in fact its a lot of fun, its just factions dont take throwing weapons, i THINK Mercs were the only ones to take throwing stuff EU side.

Mendro and Godwin had a lot of fun

[En_Dotter]

I voted randomly cus i could do 12/15 votes (or something).

Anyway, stabs are pretty much retarded in the game and that is the most annoying thing in the game.