Socialism

[FleetFox]

wat

Yeah Cubans were pretty happy with how their country turned out, you go to Cuba today and the people are a lot more upbeat than compared to there Neighbours America for example.

But yeah Socialism certainly isn't dead, and don't let people say socialism is communism because they are different. As Armpit rightly said, the Scandinavian countries are capitalist but have their own aspects of socialism (for example strong welfare) and look how they turned out, some of the richest nations in the world with comparatively low populations ^^.

Yes I am a socialist, and bloody well proud of it too!

[Teeth]

Socialism is more like democrats i think...

Socialism is nothing like the Democrats in the US. Sure the Democrats are more left than the Republicans, but the Democrats are still more right wing than most parties we in Europe consider right wing. The ideals of low government interference and free market are so deeply ingrained throughout the US society that there hasn't been much of a labour or socialist movement.

Socialism is reality. We have socialism in some european states. It inclueds state wellfare, 4-5 weeks holidays, health and unemployment insurance and stuff like this.

No, those things are the only things that socialists have managed to realize after watering down their ideology for a century. They became less and less extreme because they saw that their ideology was not feasible. What is left now of socialism are capitalists who value equality slightly higher than the other capitalists, gg socialism. Socialism is dead as hell because current day socialists are a part of the system the original socialists tried to overthrow.

[Eugen]

Shure Teeth. How can modern day socialists do what they want to do, if they dont get them funds from faithful members as it used to be. They need the system as they are not independet. They would be if they were funded by theire voter base with membership fees. But today thats not the case. No support, no independence, no power.

[Nessaj]

[[ptx]]

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Eugen]

Now where does the productivity come from? From enterpreneurs who have visions and strong minds to realice them and from employees who do the realizing. This man in the video is talking about communist states. We are talking about socialist states. There is a difference. Economy has its rights becouse it "provides" work. And also the employees have theire rights, becouse they do most of the work. There has to be a a balance between the employers and the employees and this balance is done by negotiaitions between theire representatives. If you have a socialist goverment the employees will have a better chance, if you have a conservative government the employers will have a better chance.

Productivity comes from a good functioning community where everybody gets his rights. This is success. The vid does not say much about that.

EDIT: And in the case of "financial crisis" it is by no doubt the fault of "capitalists" and its not right to let the employees pay for theire mistakes and irresponsibility.

[Nightmare798]

I'm not entirely convinced on the premise that human nature says given the opportunity with minimal risk we're going to screw our neighbors or strangers without a second thought but there is a certain malevolence when normally altruistic people fail to prevent the others from doing something exploitative.

Of course there are many who have sense of honor and would not betray anyone for profit, no matter how great it is.

On the other hand, there many of those who are exact opposites, wlling to prey on others for their personal gain, and that is why will socialism never truly work.

[[ptx]]

The leftist policies practiced in Scandinavian countries are not socialist. Socialism is not communism, but neither is it what any country in Europe practices.

And, let's be honest here, Scandinavian countries do not owe their current prosperity to their wellfare programs. Norway has oil, whilst Sweden was one of the countries least affected by WW2, whereas it is pretty much the entire Eastern Europe that was forced into socialism after WW2.

[Eugen]

The leftist policies practiced in Scandinavian countries are not socialist. Socialism is not communism, but neither is it what any country in Europe practices.

And, let's be honest here, Scandinavian countries do not owe their current prosperity to their wellfare programs. Norway has oil, whilst Sweden was one of the countries least affected by WW2, whereas it is pretty much the entire Eastern Europe that was forced into socialism communism after WW2.

corrected. (that socialism does not encourage the eliminiation of private property may be one of the most significant differences between socialism and communism for clarification)

[Nightmare798]

Shure Teeth. How can modern day socialists do what they want to do, if they dont get them funds from faithful members as it used to be. They need the system as they are not independet. They would be if they were funded by theire voter base with membership fees. But today thats not the case. No support, no independence, no power.

There are no faithfull supporting members, only people with their paychecks being cut down to size by taxes.

You cant deny them funds, because those funds come from anything you earn or buy, regardless whether you like it or not.

[[ptx]]

corrected. (that socialism does not encourage the eliminiation of private property may be one of the most significant differences between socialism and communism for clarification)

Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.[1][2] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[3] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[4] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[5]

[Kalam]

I'm surprised no one addressed the question about 'everyone hating Socialists'.

The simple answer (there's rarely a 'right' answer for questions like this) is that socialism was associated with both national socialists and stalinists in the United States.

Hell, there really is no way to answer this without going into the history of it. We could start with the Populares of Rome, or the Peasant Revolt in the 14th century. Shit.

ANYWAY, American propaganda in the 20th century demonized socialism due to the first states that preached socialist ideologies. The Cold War exacerbated this, just as Reductio_ad_einsteinum dominates forums everywhere, comparing people, ideas, and things you didn't agree with to Russian communists. While this is less prevalent now, all you have to do is talk to someone from Alabama to see that it still lives on. Anything remotely connected to 'the enemy' became negative, so it's easy in American politics to label anyone who disagrees with Ayn Rand as a 'socialist'.

People don't realize that things like 'socialism' and 'capitalism' are broad economic theories, and most countries employ varied applications of differing economic theories. So most economies are bound to have both socialist and capitalist principles at play, since they're mostly influenced by Keynesian economics.

People use these terms in order to influence people in a tribal manner, so that in the 'us vs. them' argument in someone's head, 'us' is capitalist and 'them' is socialist. What works for football works for politics.

Feel free to correct me if I got something wrong.

To Alabamans: it's a running gag. I don't actually think you're all the same. NO OFFENSE INTENDED, I LOVE YOUR SWEET TEA.

[Rumblood]

Socialism is not the same as Communism... Scandinavia is, in my opinion, more socialist, than Russia ever was.

That's because Russia is Communist 

Yeah Cubans were pretty happy with how their country turned out, you go to Cuba today and the people are a lot more upbeat than compared to there Neighbours America for example.

That's because the unhappy ones swam to Florida, were imprisoned, or killed.

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

You seriously underestimate racism and natural resources. It would be a helluva more like pre-2011 Sudan than 1917 Russia.

Socialism is nothing like the Democrats in the US. Sure the Democrats are more left than the Republicans, but the Democrats are still more right wing than most parties we in Europe consider right wing. The ideals of low government interference and free market are so deeply ingrained throughout the US society that there hasn't been much of a labour or socialist movement.

Much truth in this.

Shure Teeth. How can modern day socialists do what they want to do, if they dont get them funds from faithful members as it used to be. They need the system as they are not independet. They would be if they were funded by theire voter base with membership fees. But today thats not the case. No support, no independence, no power.

That's because most socialists in America have no money to give (and are lazy to boot). I imagine it is similar in Europe.

[Eugen]

@ptx: That no real definintion for socialism exists may be true. Still communism is more rigid then socialism in terms what it entitles common property and what private property. Socialism as I see it sees common property in things like transport, energy, communication, education and health - not private homes and belongings or business and trades that are not crucial for the functioning of public life.

@nightmare: funds collected by taxes have to be declared in the budget, like every goverment has to. Other income usually is aquired by all parties to make theire political campaigns being heard - call it advertisment - its fact that political parties need this or they go down the river.

[[ptx]]

As you see is not what it is. That's just government functions, as they have always been. Read what i quoted off wikipedia, again. Socialism, in general, prevents private property in means of production. No country in Europe is socialist, thankfully.