Ranged stagger: Should it stay or should it go

[Jona]

Copy pasted from another thread:

Can we please change it to something like this? Countless times I have been hit and sent maybe 5 feet backwards by an arrow... I look down at my health and have to squint to see any loss of red. Makes sense, right?

Also this kind of plays into Forsvar's proposed compromise, since USUALLY longbow, bow, etc, do more damage than the one slot bows.

[Kafein]

"arrow stun is realistic and fun"

Fun as in Dwarf Fortress fun, yeah

It just pushes ranged to shoot into melee even more than they normally do due to their moronic nature. A reason to do it is frankly not necessary.

[Viriathus]

I much rather get stunned than lose half of my hp from a spam arrow, however, you cant nerf both things (stun or dmg), archers need to be efficient some how, so go ahead and choose one, would you rather die from a skip the fun archer in siege, or would you rather get stunned. And ofc the stun is realistic, have you ever got shot by an arrow? oh it stuns you alright, unless you are an orc from lord of the rings.

And one more thing, nerfing the dmg would make most noob archers give up and only the truthful ones stay, those who fight with tactics and team work (hence the "fun").

[Kafein]

I much rather get stunned than lose half of my hp from a spam arrow, however, you cant nerf both things (stun or dmg), archers need to be efficient some how, so go ahead and choose one, would you rather die from a skip the fun archer in siege, or would you rather get stunned. And ofc the stun is realistic, have you ever got shot by an arrow?

Have you ? Have you ever been shot by a handgun while wearing a bulletproof vest ? Without ? Stings like a bitch either way, but there is nothing pushing you five meters away. Anyway if that was the case, the archer would be pushed backwards 5 meters too when firing.

oh it stuns you alright, unless you are an orc from lord of the rings.

And one more thing, nerfing the dmg would make most noob archers give up and only the truthful ones stay, those who fight with tactics and team work (hence the "fun").

You forgot get a shield lol after tactics and teamwork

[Hirlok]

I voted "stay" of course, but would love to see 2 changes:

- overall slight nerf of the stun intensity

- make stun dependant on PD and shot distance

[CrazyCracka420]

I just don't get why there is any justification to have an arrow or bolt or throwing weapon stagger you, but getting demolished with a bardiche doesn't stagger you at all.  I think getting rid of pole stagger was a great idea.  I think ranged stagger needs to follow.

I know this is a "nerf" to ranged, and I'm technically against most people's proposals to nerf ranged (they are already very heavily nerfed), but I think ranged stagger is just a lame mechanic.  It just so happens it's ranged that has this mechanic, if it was any other class I would be for removing it as well.  I'm not suggesting it be removed because it is specifically ranged that still has stagger.

I do like some of the suggestions that maybe only certain amount of damage will deal stagger, or only certain types of weapons do stagger (like heavier bows, or maybe heavier throwing weapons and xbows too).  But I personally think it would be better if all forms of stagger are removed from the game.  Having your attack or block interrupted should be enough of a "stagger" for any weapon hit.

[Rumblood]

A good archer saves a bloody rambo on their team, or the lone survivor of a small scrum from 3-5 enemy trying to run him down until he can make it back to the main body. It happens every round, but people are so wrapped up in their melee-centric world that 95% of the time, they don't even notice that their ass was saved. Most of them don't hit teammates more than 5-10% of the time and if they do, press the mutha fuckin ctrl-M every time and they will get their asses booted.
The difference between ranged stagger and pole stagger is that ranged can't keep you stun locked. It takes too long between shots. Unless of course you want to talk about multiple ranged, and then I will just say gtfo arguing about a 1vs2-5 situation.

Have you ? Have you ever been shot by a handgun while wearing a bulletproof vest ? Without ? Stings like a bitch either way, but there is nothing pushing you five meters away. Anyway if that was the case, the archer would be pushed backwards 5 meters too when firing.

You forgot get a shield lol after tactics and teamwork

Have you? It simulates your legs briefly turning to noodles when a 3-4 foot shaft of wood penetrates your body. It isn't a push back, it is you staggering back because your legs temporarily refuse to support your weight. Since you want to argue realism instead of gameplay.

[Grumbs]

You can't look at realism in a vacuum. A Bardiche would cleave your head open in one hit regardless, or at least knock you out. Chainmail with padding was actually really good against arrows, plate even better.

Just saying, a semblance of reality is all thats needed, beyond that its gameplay all the way. Getting rooted to the spot by any projectile while any melee hit doesn't makes no gameplay sense and why have realism for one weapon and not for another?

[Rumblood]

You can't look at realism in a vacuum. A Bardiche would cleave your head open in one hit regardless, or at least knock you out. Chainmail with padding was actually really good against arrows, plate even better.

Just saying, a semblance of reality is all thats needed, beyond that its gameplay all the way. Getting rooted to the spot by any projectile while any melee hit doesn't makes no gameplay sense and why have realism for one weapon and not for another?

I didn't bring up realism, so don't make it my argument.

[Tzar]

Only class that should have stagger is the Throwing, there is no reasoning in allowing xbows/archers to keep staggering people, when 1h/2h dont stagger, an yes i know pole dont stagger as much as used too, but it still stagger for a brief sec.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

IDK, I feel like maybe having the bows have stagger is a bit OP but as a dedicated crossbow man I thrive on that stagger. It takes me 5 seconds(I just counted) to reload my arbalest with 123wpf. The stagger is one of the few pluses to it(gives me time to reload which i desperately need) besides the high damage output. Just my opinion since everyones just talking about archery and not about crossbows.

[Jarold]

It's even worse when they barely do damage but you still stagger right into the pit of hell.

[Smoothrich]

IDK, I feel like maybe having the bows have stagger is a bit OP but as a dedicated crossbow man I thrive on that stagger. It takes me 5 seconds(I just counted) to reload my arbalest with 123wpf. The stagger is one of the few pluses to it(gives me time to reload which i desperately need) besides the high damage output. Just my opinion since everyones just talking about archery and not about crossbows.

Especially a weapon like Arbs should be long-distance sniper weapons. Any chucklefuck with 0 WPF who picked one up in a Strat battle can tell you how OP they are in close range since you never miss and you rack up kills with little to no threat for your own safety like no other weapon. I've had plenty of 30+ kills 2 death matches with 0 WPF. Staggering to give you more breathing room in close quarters is the opposite of how that weapon should play. If someone is close enough that a stagger is the difference between kiting/reloading and death you should be pulling out a melee weapon.

Stagger is stupid and sometimes gamebreaking. Try to fight in a melee line when a handful of throwers, archers, and whatever else open up on you at once. Since you can't juke mid stagger, you get focus fired and are stuck in place like an epileptic idiot. They do enough damage as it is without needing that crutch. Being locked in place because of ranged fire and having no way to counter it has no semblance of skill, fun, or competitively balanced gameplay.

[Paul]

Your opinion about ranged stagger is only valid if you have an archer char with 10:1 or better kd rating(with a minimum of 10k kills). Anything else is ignored.

[Lord_Kitazawa_of_Voodoo]

Any chucklefuck with 0 WPF who picked one up in a Strat battle

+1 because of word choice, even though I disagree with some of your arguments.
Regardless of conflicting opinion, "chucklefuck" deserves an upvote.

Your opinion about ranged stagger is only valid if you have an archer char with 10:1 or better kd rating(with a minimum of 10k kills). Anything else is ignored.

I guess I'll be quiet, then :/