Armored horses

[JasonPastman]

The mod needs to buff light cav and it will provide counters to what are currently counter less classes.  I wrote this solution in response to people crying that all cav be nerfed and find it appropriate here.

Maybe heavy cav, but us light cav have a rough go of it.  Get 2 shot/hit by everything on maps that are to often tight lanes where maneuvering is next to impossible, even with 9 riding.  Archers and other range are never 1 hit with the heavy lance, meaning that if they do not see you coming they will typically dismount you while your exiting the pass.  Horse archers also take several [+ or - 5] hits meaning your going to get owned as they kite you around the map. Heavy cav just need to park their tanks in front of you, stopping your horse, and hack you to death, couching and stabbing them with the heavy lance is ineffective.  Considering the extreme cost of cav (I have lost over 40k in a day's session because of the cost of the Arabian warhorse,) I really think that crying for nerfs when light cavs has already been nerfed to the ground is unnecessary and frustrating.  I myself, on foot, with my hbs, can manage 2 (or 3 bad) light cav, typically able to dismount or kill the riders unless they break off.  If anything light cav and/or the heavy lance needs a buff so that we can deal effectively with range, horse range and  those metal elephants that everyone crys about.

I do not think that heavy cav should be nerfed on the grounds that It is incredibly expensive to play, and rather that creating a counter class would be a superior solution.  The counter that I have suggested would help counter a variety of classes that by many people are currently considered op.  The only possible downside to my suggestion is that melee, the ones who are bad at managing cav, will fall victim more often to light cav then  they currently do,  however I think this reasonable, especially considering that people can learn to manage cav and that such an inability it is not inherent in any particular class .

[JasonPastman]

Yeah, it's pretty dangerous for the lone rider. Anyone being smart and sticking with the 5+ other cav on their team, especially if they're all armored, doesn't really have much of anything to fear. They're like ranged, they get progressively more dangerous(and easier to play) as their numbers and teamwork increase.

That's true of any class.

[Angantyr]

Just to make it clear; I have no special difficulty dealing with cavalry, ranged are my nemesis, but on EU1 these last many days about 80% of all cavalry have been plated and most of them ranged themselves.

[Kafein]

Intead of nerfing heavy horses, I'd rather buff light horses into existence again. Right now all horses handle like boats. There's very little point using a horse that turns like a yacht over using a horse that turns like a supertanker, when that supertanker has chances to survive enough time for you to get into range of something while the yacht cannot.

That's true of any class.

No

[Rumblood]

Armored horses should vastly reduce the accuracy of HA/HX and possibly HT's. Realistic? No. Balanced? Yes.

[Jack1]

Armored horses should vastly reduce the accuracy of HA/HX and possibly HT's. Realistic? No. Balanced? Yes.

That's probibly the most balanced possible thing. Perhaps lower the profencency of ranged by 2-3x the horses armor? Or 1/7-10 the horse archery

[JasonPastman]

Yeah, it's pretty dangerous for the lone rider. Anyone being smart and sticking with the 5+ other cav on their team, especially if they're all armored, doesn't really have much of anything to fear. They're like ranged, they get progressively more dangerous(and easier to play) as their numbers and teamwork increase.

That's true of any class.

No

  What class is more effective in less numbers?

[Tydeus]

What class is more effective in less numbers?

Simply having 5 melee on your team working together isn't necessarily anything to be afraid of. A group of only 5 melee players is pretty small actually. 5 heavy cav on the other hand, isn't a sight any melee wants to see heading towards them, they can pretty much do whatever they want if the terrain is in their favor. I don't know if you've played a strategus field battle before, but one cavalry player is definitely more strategically valuable than one infantry player, especially if we're talking heavy cav.

[JasonPastman]

Simply having 5 melee on your team working together isn't necessarily anything to be afraid of. A group of only 5 melee players is pretty small actually. 5 heavy cav on the other hand, isn't a sight any melee wants to see heading towards them, they can pretty much do whatever they want if the terrain is in their favor. I don't know if you've played a strategus field battle before, but one cavalry player is definitely more strategically valuable than one infantry player, especially if we're talking heavy cav.

What if those 5 melee players all have pikes?

[Ronin]

Simply having 5 melee on your team working together isn't necessarily anything to be afraid of. A group of only 5 melee players is pretty small actually. 5 heavy cav on the other hand, isn't a sight any melee wants to see heading towards them, they can pretty much do whatever they want if the terrain is in their favor. I don't know if you've played a strategus field battle before, but one cavalry player is definitely more strategically valuable than one infantry player, especially if we're talking heavy cav.

I agree. Infantry classes probably has the least cohesion. Only by staying close enough they can keep their advantage, and even so they are more prone to have some weaknesses.

Still, would love to see 5 hoplites heavily sticking together and killing anyone in their path

[Tydeus]

What if those 5 melee players all have pikes?

Then they're extremely vulnerable to everything in the game that isn't atop a horse using a melee weapon? This includes horsemen that dismount to quickly dispatch those idiots who thought it was a good idea to only have 5 of the same weapon that all have the same attack direction. Couldn't you have at least said 5 hoplites?

[CrazyCracka420]

Simply having 5 melee on your team working together isn't necessarily anything to be afraid of. A group of only 5 melee players is pretty small actually. 5 heavy cav on the other hand, isn't a sight any melee wants to see heading towards them, they can pretty much do whatever they want if the terrain is in their favor. I don't know if you've played a strategus field battle before, but one cavalry player is definitely more strategically valuable than one infantry player, especially if we're talking heavy cav.

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Aww shucks

I always do my best to enable friendly infantry to do better.

[JasonPastman]

Then they're extremely vulnerable to everything in the game that isn't atop a horse using a melee weapon? This includes horsemen that dismount to quickly dispatch those idiots who thought it was a good idea to only have 5 of the same weapon that all have the same attack direction. Couldn't you have at least said 5 hoplites?

Ok 5 hoplites then.

But, I'm not sure why your arguing what your arguing... all I was saying was

What class is more effective in less numbers?

one cavalry player is definitely more strategically valuable than one infantry player, especially if we're talking heavy cav.

But since we are now on the subject, your claim is a variable dependent on many factors. Perhaps in an open field as a support character your theory may be true for heavy cav, but NA and EU1 battle maps are not open fields.  I would also suggest that you not group light with heavy cav for the reasons I listed a few posts up.     

[San]

I rode a +3 rouncey without any problems for nearly a year back when ranged wasn't seen as too much of an issue. Maybe the problem lies with ranged?

@Jason, Cav also have the opportunity to get off the horse at any location they choose, ending up with a mostly capable melee build on foot. 1v1, it helps against many cav counters.

[Furax]

Dont all horses have exactly 0 armour on there legs? Chop/stab for the legs. Cav dont need anymore nerfs. I say give em back the old lance angle so lancers can actually dodge range whilst trying to lance them