FUCK THIS BULLSHIT

[CrazyCracka420]

Easy for you to talk when your build (1Hcav) have never been nerfed. How about Tydeus and co. implement limited attack angle for 1Hcav and bring back self bump. Would you still say how class balance is very good, or would you suddenly have more time for your kid because you don't feel like you want to play anymore?

I'm a lancer/shield cav that uses 1h/shield when I get dismounted, or am on a map that isn't good for cavalry.

That being said, over the past few months I've really only been playing my 2h alt. 

I've always had the stance that the game is pretty well balanced (it will never be perfect, and I don't think it needs to be).  People need to adapt and change, not whine to the devs to have them force change on someone who's getting the best of them. 

People always want to "W-key" until they reach enemy infantry horde and swing away like mad men, and then rinse and repeat.  Tactics and teamwork go a long way towards not being cavalry or ranged target practice.  Every class has strengths and every class has weaknesses.  That's what makes this game so great.

[Grumbs]

Nerf Ranged

[San]

Easy for you to talk when your build (1Hcav) have never been nerfed. How about Tydeus and co. implement limited attack angle for 1Hcav and bring back self bump. Would you still say how class balance is very good, or would you suddenly have more time for your kid because you don't feel like you want to play anymore?

He was heavy lance cav on a courser. Surely none of those have ever been nerfed.


I mostly see balanced builds on the server. I rarely see any many agi builds tear it up outside of Bigsandwich and solo bolo. 21/21, 21/24, 24/21 are still the go-to builds I see for most high levels.

[JasonPastman]

Cav op pls nerf

Maybe heavy cav, but us light cav have a rough go of it.  Get 2 shot/hit by everything on maps that are to often tight lanes where maneuvering is next to impossible, even with 9 riding.  Archers and other range are never 1 hit with the heavy lance, meaning that if they do not see you coming they will typically dismount you while your exiting the pass.  Horse archers also take several hits meaning your going to get owned as they kite you around the map. Heavy cav just need to park their tanks in front of you, stopping your horse, and hack you to death, couching and stabbing them with the heavy lance is ineffective.  Considering the extreme cost of cav (I have lost over 40k in a day's session because of the cost of the Arabian warhorse,) I really think that crying for nerfs when light cavs has already been nerfed to the ground is unnecessary and frustrating.  I myself, on foot, with my hbs, can manage 2 (or 3 bad) light cav, typically able to dismount or kill the riders unless they break off.  If anything light cav and/or the heavy lance needs a buff so that we can deal effectively with range, horse range and  those metal elephants that everyone crys about.

[Leshma]

I'm a lancer/shield cav that uses 1h/shield when I get dismounted, or am on a map that isn't good for cavalry.

That being said, over the past few months I've really only been playing my 2h alt. 

I've always had the stance that the game is pretty well balanced (it will never be perfect, and I don't think it needs to be).  People need to adapt and change, not whine to the devs to have them force change on someone who's getting the best of them. 

People always want to "W-key" until they reach enemy infantry horde and swing away like mad men, and then rinse and repeat.  Tactics and teamwork go a long way towards not being cavalry or ranged target practice.  Every class has strengths and every class has weaknesses.  That's what makes this game so great.

I do generally agree but I wouldn't call balance good. Good balance is when all classes are balanced equally. cRPG has periods when one class is better choice than the other. Currently, I'll say that AGI shielders take the cake, especially with pierce/blunt weapons.

 

[CrazyCracka420]

I do generally agree but I wouldn't call balance good. Good balance is when all classes are balanced equally. cRPG has periods when one class is better choice than the other. Currently, I'll say that AGI shielders take the cake, especially with pierce/blunt weapons.

I think all classes are balanced relatively equally.  How do you ever get a 2h and an archer balanced completely even between them?  They both have strengths and both have weaknesses.  2h is good in some situations, archer is better in others.  That's really all you can ask for...unless we want to continue down the nerf trail (which I think is a shame, we've had too many nerfs over the years).  Nerfs only beget other nerfs.  Nerf item A, and then item B becomes too strong....welp now it's time to nerf item B.  Oh now item C is too strong because of the nerfs to A and B, time to nerf item C.


BTW they can nerf whatever class I play from here to eternity, I'll still play the game because I thoroughly enjoy the mechanics. I just worry that it will continue driving people away.  i think nerfs drive more people away than the people whining about ranged that are leaving the mod.

[722_]

More and more everyday I realise how ridiculous agiwhores' movement speed looks. It's so absurd for me that someone can sprint while holding a big weapon horizontally for a while, for example.

I used to use balanced build with at least 7 athletics, and I realised that I used backpedalling and footwork too much instead of blocking, and such high athletics make people look like Flash when fighting. Now my build has a lot more strength and, with 5 athletics, my character's movement seems more realistic and I have to block a lot more instead of just dodge.

That's what I think of agi builds: they don't look realistic, and they encourage lame gameplay.

Oh! And the wpf patch wasn't really necessary (except for hybrids) in my opinion. Swing speed shouldn't be SO different from one build to another.

it made allmost no difference to my range / 2h build. i lost about 5 wpf in total

[Grumbs]

I think all classes are balanced relatively equally.  How do you ever get a 2h and an archer balanced completely even between them?  They both have strengths and both have weaknesses.  2h is good in some situations, archer is better in others.  That's really all you can ask for...unless we want to continue down the nerf trail (which I think is a shame, we've had too many nerfs over the years).  Nerfs only beget other nerfs.  Nerf item A, and then item B becomes too strong....welp now it's time to nerf item B.  Oh now item C is too strong because of the nerfs to A and B, time to nerf item C.

The problem is the devs have tried to make ranged good in too many areas without enough shortcomings. Xbows don't even need requirements so they have good armour, good weapon and point & click high damage ranged attacks. Changing the shield slots will now possibly lead to more 1 hand/shield + xbow. Regardless, xbows is a very solid all round class for any situation. Not to mention, for melee often you just need player skill, a bit of armour, agi and a 1 hander and you can take on pretty much anything and still have the ranged capability.

That is why balance is bad, ranged are too versatile

[Prpavi]

No mention of HA in the OP, you get a + Sir! 

[JasonPastman]

I think all classes are balanced relatively equally.  How do you ever get a 2h and an archer balanced completely even between them? 

You make sure there is a counter class for every class.  2h and no shield anything gets owned by range but who do ranged get owned by, or for that matter shielders?

[Leshma]

You should've tried the mod 3 years ago, compared to that, we're in a very good stage balance wise.

Mod was in excellent shape 3 years ago, 2 years ago and even a year ago. Now it's not. Not sure is balance at fault or whatever but mod has been patched a day ago and it's currently double XP active yet servers aren't even near to full. And there are people playing only for few hours during the day, morning/night are dead except for battle (which won't last long with these new changes).

I don't know why we're discussing this, me who's active every day and you who used to be active every day but is nowhere to be seen last few days. Even I who used to play this 12 hours a day, can't make it past 5 hours anymore...

Unless you feel the need to play this mod, you really shouldn't talk how wonderful is it. Because that is bullshit, my friend.

[StonedSteel]

Agi builds are 10x easier than STR builds, why? because you have access to things like the steel pick that will take 70% off a plate guys health and have only 13 STR, i have yet to see a full STR build yet since the AGI buff, there are about 100x more agi builds than STR.

AGI Rondel my old friends still take 90% with one stab and you can do nothing about while they hide behind their invincible shield. i play this game less and less every day, the only way to escape all of the BS that occurs is to go heavy cav. That way i can run away from all these shitty agi builds.

Even then the 1h Stab is the new anti cav weapon.

^ THIS

Quote from: Patoson on Today at 05:38:05 pm

    More and more everyday I realise how ridiculous agiwhores' movement speed looks. It's so absurd for me that someone can sprint while holding a big weapon horizontally for a while, for example.

    I used to use balanced build with at least 7 athletics, and I realised that I used backpedalling and footwork too much instead of blocking, and such high athletics make people look like Flash when fighting. Now my build has a lot more strength and, with 5 athletics, my character's movement seems more realistic and I have to block a lot more instead of just dodge.

    That's what I think of agi builds: they don't look realistic, and they encourage lame gameplay.

    Oh! And the wpf patch wasn't really necessary (except for hybrids) in my opinion. Swing speed shouldn't be SO different from one build to another.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

[Grumbs]

You make sure there is a counter class for every class.  2h and no shield anything gets owned by range but who do ranged get owned by, or for that matter shielders?

At least shielders always have their nemesis: Axes. So if ranged population gets too big you take axes. But the answer to ranged is to have more ranged so we have these problems.

HA/HX are a joke too. If we have fewer ranged we need to look at their capabilities too because HA/HX counters are plagued by similar issues

[CrazyCracka420]

At least shielders always have their nemesis: Axes. So if ranged population gets too big you take axes. But the answer to ranged is to have more ranged so we have these problems.

HA/HX are a joke too. If we have fewer ranged we need to look at their capabilities too because HA/HX counters are plagued by similar issues

The problem is that not everything should be balanced around a 1v1 situation in a vacuum.  Shielders counter archers in a 1v1 however.  Cavalry can as well.  Close the gap and melee counters ranged. 

Instead of w-keying to the enemy infantry,  a shielder can help protect an xbow or archer.  A hoplite can try and stick with a 2h hero and work together.  Working with teammates increasing your effectiveness an survivability. 

I do agree with Jason the great about light horses needing a buff if you want to see them become better counters towards archers (as they used to be).  The lance angle nerf really hurt light cav's ability to deal with archers effectively.  Add to the fact that lancing them doesn't even always kill them (even with 8 Power Strike and riding the fastest horse in the game).

*NINJA EDIT*

Why should you though if you can just shoot them? Its common sense to play xbow when you have such adaptability and few weaknesses

Grumbs I think xbow should have a skill to use them, similar to power throw or power draw.  It does seem like a no brainer to me.  But I don't think it's ruining the game or class balance.  The reason why people don't get an xbow however, is because it costs WPF, and they would rather put that into other proficiencies (aka be pure melee). 

[Grumbs]

The problem is that not everything should be balanced around a 1v1 situation in a vacuum.  Shielders counter archers in a 1v1 however.  Cavalry can as well.  Close the gap and melee counters ranged. 

Instead of w-keying to the enemy infantry,  a shielder can help protect an xbow or archer.  A hoplite can try and stick with a 2h hero and work together.  Working with teammates increasing your effectiveness an survivability.

Why should you though if you can just shoot them? Its common sense to play xbow when you have such adaptability and few weaknesses