Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Oberyn]

My money's on Odessa next, any takers? This won't end until Ukraine is completely cut off from the Black Sea, at the very least.

[Vovka]

Kiev

[Xant]

" Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on April 24 that the violence stemming from Ukraine's anti-terror operation in eastern Ukraine has prompted Russia to launch military drills in western Russia.

"The forces are clearly unequal," Shoigu said at a ministerial collegium meeting.

"If this military machine is not stopped today, it will lead to a large number of dead and wounded," he continued. "

Hahahah. Russians are hilarious. "The government forces and the rebel/Russian forces are not equal. We must intervene!"

Russian law enforcement must be really hazardous when their government insists on both forces being equal.

[Christo]

"US journalist Simon Ostrovsky, held by pro-Russian separatists in Sloviansk, has been freed"

Yay.

[Butan]

Apparently heavy military traffic on border to Ukraine. The main Russian invasion has started. GLHF.

NATO forces in Ukraine are "only for show, dont worry" but Russian forces on the border of Ukraine doing the same show on their own territory is an invasion. My little finger tells me there is a fallacy somewhere!


Little Butan's smyleys post  :) :rolleyes: :P Dont read ever!

(click to show/hide)

Euro-maidan government repression scaling:

20 november, beginning of pro-EU crisis in Kiev and Western provinces

21 november - 30 november = normal police
1 december - 21 january = normal police + riot police
22 january - 17 february = normal police + riot police (+hired thugs/special services operation, unconfirmed)
18 february (last ditch attempt to retake control of Maidan by force) = police authorized to use live ammo (fires on crowds which tries to take back maidan after first push, dozens of dead)
20 february = government collapse + beginning of Crimean/Eastern Ukraine crisis




Eastern Ukraine new government repression scaling:

22 february, beginning of pro-RUS crisis in Crimea and Eastern provinces

23 february - 31 march = local police
1 march - 11 april = local police + ukraine security forces + national/border guards + national security service agents
12 april (unknown armed forces takes control of police stations) = above + army + anti-terrorist agents, authorized to use live ammo (which fails because they mostly encounter unarmed civilians, small skirmishes with insurged armed forces, dozens of dead)
14 april - present = government alive and well, continue to send army and conduct nation scale anti-terrorist operations

(click to show/hide)

Bonus prophecy : X april/may - present = first "innocent" civilians dead (unconfirmed to have already happened), uproar, push Eastern to join russia, OTAN gets troops on russia border and start pew pew

IMO - Ukraine showed MUCH restraint, frankly - I did not see anything I would object to. I would even go as far as saying they showed TOO much restraint and it cost them unfortunately.

Indeed, much restraint.




I guess, demanding the restoration of power structures to protect the Ukrainian citizens who lived in Kiev and Western provinces 3 months ago would have been unrestrained illegitimate move!

But new legitimate interim president chosen by all the Ukrainian people can say this and noone is the wiser  :P


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So - why should I even attempt to debate with douche-bags who think current invasions and occupation is ok, merely "to restore order"?

Thats a good question, in retrospective!

The only way to resolve the crisis peacefully today, which was created by Maidan success, is to accept the separatism and go with the flow of the population demands, not to eliminate it, except if they are ready to shoot dead the vocal minority of their own people in the east region and to then "occupy" the silent majority who will hate Kiev for it.
Even I had doubts on Ukraine nationalist gaining the upper hand in new Kiev, but with the latest announcement on the ongoing crisis I think they have totally overtaken the whole of the government, if not in "political party" influence, at least in spirit and in heart, with the not even silent approval of the EU/US after all those "diplomatic meeting".

[Christo]

Kerry attacks Russia for Ukraine deception

"Let’s get real, the Geneva Agreement is not open to interpretation. It is not vague. It is not optional,"

"Let me be clear, if Russia continues in this direction, it will not just be a grave mistake but an expensive mistake. The window to change course is closing."

[Tom Cruise]

So does this mean Na'Vi is going to die? Literally?

RIP in peace Dendi

[Christo]

So does this mean Na'Vi is going to die? Literally?

RIP in peace Dendi

Have no fear

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He has good reflexes, he should be fine 

[Kafein]

NATO forces in Ukraine are "only for show, dont worry" but Russian forces on the border of Ukraine doing the same show on their own territory is an invasion. My little finger tells me there is a fallacy somewhere!

There is a fallacy in your reasoning, because the NATO countries on the border of Ukraine have zero interest in trying to annex some parts of it. Not in a million years. In fact, their only interest is to prevent Russia doing that.

The only way to resolve the crisis peacefully today, which was created by Maidan success, is to accept the separatism and go with the flow of the population demands, not to eliminate it, except if they are ready to shoot dead the vocal minority of their own people in the east region and to then "occupy" the silent majority who will hate Kiev for it.
Even I had doubts on Ukraine nationalist gaining the upper hand in new Kiev, but with the latest announcement on the ongoing crisis I think they have totally overtaken the whole of the government, if not in "political party" influence, at least in spirit and in heart, with the not even silent approval of the EU/US after all those "diplomatic meeting".

The euromaydan crisis ended just about as soon as Yanukovitch fled. Everything that happened afterwards in Crimea and the eastern regions is a result of Russia destabilizing the country.

But yeah now that it's done, let's just split Ukraine between a NATO country that hopefully won't be bullied again and shithole eastern regions. At the end of this crisis, the neighbors of Russia that still want some form of independance will want to join NATO even stronger than before. And Putin will cry because he's being surrounded by evil American conspiracy against the Russian people.

[Tovi]

A German TV, ARD, about Maîdan murders : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1qnu74_ard-qui-est-responsable-du-carnage-de-maidan-11-04-2014_webcam?start=30

(video is in german with french subtitles, I look for the english version)

Or is it another russian conspiracy (Dave) ?

[Molly]

Every single time Putin speaks about "Protecting the Russian population", it makes me smile.
When you live 10+ years in a country, you work there, your kids were born there, you are not part of another country any more. Those are all Ukrainians, doesn't matter if they like it or not. When you see it that way, Putin is going against his own agenda:

Syria used chemical weapons on it's population? Too bad but none of our business.
Ukrainians storm government buildings in the East? Protect the innocent.

And then it's even more funny to see that the "German part of the internet" is full with Putin supporters with the same sick view like Panos described: "Wish we had a stronk lider like Putin!" Even worse, they are like Butan too, no reasoning with them at all.

[Kuujis]

What a thrall...

NATO forces in Ukraine are "only for show, dont worry" but Russian forces on the border of Ukraine doing the same show on their own territory is an invasion. My little finger tells me there is a fallacy somewhere!

Sorry, I missed something... You consider the CIA chief visit to Ukraine "NATO forces"? Or there is some other sick shit in your contrarian corder your would be willing to call OTAN forces?

<...blaberish...>
Euro-maidan government repression scaling:

20 november, beginning of pro-EU crisis in Kiev and Western provinces

21 november - 30 november = normal police
1 december - 21 january = normal police + riot police
22 january - 17 february = normal police + riot police (+hired thugs/special services operation, unconfirmed)
18 february (last ditch attempt to retake control of Maidan by force) = police authorized to use live ammo (fires on crowds which tries to take back maidan after first push, dozens of dead)
20 february = government collapse + beginning of Crimean/Eastern Ukraine crisis
Eastern Ukraine new government repression scaling:

22 february, beginning of pro-RUS crisis in Crimea and Eastern provinces

23 february - 31 march = local police
1 march - 11 april = local police + ukraine security forces + national/border guards + national security service agents
12 april (unknown armed forces takes control of police stations) = above + army + anti-terrorist agents, authorized to use live ammo (which fails because they mostly encounter unarmed civilians, small skirmishes with insurged armed forces, dozens of dead)
14 april - present = government alive and well, continue to send army and conduct nation scale anti-terrorist operations

(click to show/hide)

Bonus prophecy : X april/may - present = first "innocent" civilians dead (unconfirmed to have already happened), uproar, push Eastern to join russia, OTAN gets troops on russia border and start pew pew

<...>

Conveniently forgetting what those forces were up against much? Please, let me know, how should government handle separatists taking arms, abducting and killing politicians and installing fucking road blocks in your country? I know that after such things happend.. oh... well... in russia- the fucking country WITH ALL FUCKING CIVILIANS WHO DID NOT RUN FAST ENOUGH INCLUDED were FUCKING BOMBED TO HELL AND BACK. THAT for you is the russian handling. Given that - I state, that handling of current ARMED separatists if REALLY mild. And that's a good thing imo, much harder for putler to cry like a baby... Need to stage acts of "attacks" and find contact cards as proof... funny shit, if it was not about war.

I guess, demanding the restoration of power structures to protect the Ukrainian citizens who lived in Kiev and Western provinces 3 months ago would have been unrestrained illegitimate move!

But new legitimate interim president chosen by all the Ukrainian people can say this and noone is the wiser 

Thats a good question, in retrospective!

That is "a question" only in your messed up contrarian hipster corder, unfortunately.
1. You are ignoring the nature of the protest. One was innitially an occupation of some square, which ended up flaring after repressions started. Another STARTED as armed small gangs occupying government buildings and THEN asking the crowds to come and save them. A bit vice versa I would say, although - I did not see OTAN troops on the ground in Maidan storming some buildings... I did see fucked up government snipers firing and killing the protesters though.
2. You are ignoring, the nature of your so coveted legitimacy: Parliament of Ukraine is STILL THE SAME as it was. Only president fled. Opposed to that there are guys with guns and masks breaking into buildings "self appointing" to be mayors, governors and generic douchebags, which "declare civil wars" every second day. The only similar things between Eastern ukraine separatists and Maidan is the burning tires. And those are for show only. And unfortunately - the show is all you need to find "doubts" and "deceits" everywhere...

The only way to resolve the crisis peacefully today, which was created by Maidan success, is to accept the separatism and go with the flow of the population demands, not to eliminate it, except if they are ready to shoot dead the vocal minority of their own people in the east region and to then "occupy" the silent majority who will hate Kiev for it.
Even I had doubts on Ukraine nationalist gaining the upper hand in new Kiev, but with the latest announcement on the ongoing crisis I think they have totally overtaken the whole of the government, if not in "political party" influence, at least in spirit and in heart, with the not even silent approval of the EU/US after all those "diplomatic meeting".

Lets... see... HOW ABOUT FUCKING NO? Based on assumptions like this WWII started, with germans coming to "save their compatriots" and shit. Europe once went that way, it DOES NOT WORK. If you live in a country you obey its laws. If you do not agree with laws or do not like them - you can move to fucking russia where guys like putler do not give a damn about them anyway.

Also - care to share any particulary strong reasons why a TERRIBLE minority of some... 1000 (?) self defined "troops" compared to 10 mil citizens should be listened to, when in fact - their approval rate is only somewhere around 40-50% according to latest pools? Vocal minority IS allowed to protest, but I do not know a single country in this world (barring some 3rd world ones and the ones in your contrarian hipster corner) where occupying government buildings, robbing weapon caches and then running around in masks and full combat gear is considered a reasonable protest NOT needing some involvement from government. I do not see a lot of sense in listening to these hard-line fanatics and I don't have a better name for them.

Oh... wait... I do have: FUCKING rUSSIAN SPECIAL FORCES 

[Tovi]

At Maidan, snipers could have been NATO commando, but I think it's more some guys from Blackwater (and, oh yes, CIA like them very much).

Just watch my video 2 posts before : the bullets were exactly the same (police and rioters). You can't say that was Iaku's men job.


edit : here it is in english

[Molly]

At Maidan, snipers could have been RF commando, but I think it's more some guys like RSB-Group (and, oh yes, FSB like them very much).

[Tovi]

At Maidan, snipers could have been RF commando, but I think it's more some guys like RSB-Group (and, oh yes, FSB like them very much).

Stupid, Russia had no interest for destabilization in Ukraine. But it's Brezinsky doctrine. Stop trolling please.