Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kafein]

Even France, the famous country of asylum and human rights, people that flee their countries are not welcome, by both native and administration.

It would be infinitely preferable to die trying what you can fix in your lifetime, on your native soil, than fleeing somewhere and bet for that 1% scenario where you will have a decent new life.

For knowing people working at at the Belgian asylum administration, if shit really hits the fan at home and you can prove it, you get asylum rather easily. All the fuss about illegal immigration is because most people can't show that they are in immediate danger if they stay.

[Xant]

It would be infinitely preferable to die trying what you can fix in your lifetime, on your native soil, than fleeing somewhere and bet for that 1% scenario where you will have a decent new life.

Spoken like someone who has never been faced with any such decision. Real life is not cRPG and doesn't have respawns. There are no "heroic deaths", the universe does not give a shit if you died "trying to fix *insert noble cause*." Living is always preferable to death. And you would think so too, if you were actually faced with a "die for an abstract cause or live a possibly-not-as-good-a-life-as-before" choice. Dying on "native soil" (doesn't really mean anything) means nothing at all.

[Leshma]

Even France, the famous country of asylum and human rights, people that flee their countries are not welcome, by both native and administration.

It would be infinitely preferable to die trying what you can fix in your lifetime, on your native soil, than fleeing somewhere and bet for that 1% scenario where you will have a decent new life.

As someone who is seriously considering to migrate somewhere else (has nothing to do with asylum seeking tho), must tell you that I haven't considered France at all. Choice will be made depending on the job I manage to get in a foreign country. Countries where I could move, live and work are Scandinavian countries because of their lax legal immigration laws, Canada, USA, Australia. Even Russia.

Most EU countries are hostile to any kind of immigrants, because they had to accept many people coming from former colonies as their citizens. UK has to be the worst by far on that list, followed closely by France, Netherlands, Denmark. It's excruciatingly hard to move there to live and work, even legally, if you come from non EU countries.

Also, chance that someone coming from country at war will live better in some other country is not 1%. It is certain or 100%. Do some research about life in today Ukraine and you'll realize that it has to be one of the hardest countries to live in a decent manner. Now imagine what will happen if war starts and how worse can become. It can always be worse, that is something I learned living in my country. There is no bottom.

[Butan]

Spoken like someone who has never been faced with any such decision. Real life is not cRPG and doesn't have respawns. There are no "heroic deaths", the universe does not give a shit if you died "trying to fix *insert noble cause*." Living is always preferable to death. And you would think so too, if you were actually faced with a "die for an abstract cause or live a possibly-not-as-good-a-life-as-before" choice. Dying on "native soil" (doesn't really mean anything) means nothing at all.

So in one thread you justify knife disarm to the risk of losing your life, and here you argue on the fact that whenever your country is going to shit the only option is to run thousands of kilometer away.

Get your shit straight. Be a tough forum warrior or a pragmatic wise-ass but not both whenever it fits your rhetoric stance.



On-topic: fortunately not everyone follow that kind of logic, else we would have unstable countries inhabited only by the radicals behind the rebellions, and seen as stable countries packed full of immigrants trying to start from scratch with crumbs of others.

Not everyone's a hero, true, but not everyone is a deserter ever. I believe the fact you dismiss the proportion of people in the middle who are ready to try to defend what they have, however they can, make me believe YOU have never been a witness of such a real life situation.

[Xant]

So in one thread you justify knife disarm to the risk of losing your life, and here you argue on the fact that whenever your country is going to shit the only option is to run thousands of kilometer away.

Get your shit straight. Be a tough forum warrior or a pragmatic wise-ass but not both whenever it fits your rhetoric stance.

Nice strawmanning. Protip: If you want to use strawman effectively, you have to make it just a biiiiiiiit more accurate.

Here's a freebie, though: there's a big difference between doing something dangerous where there's a chance of death (you could die while walking to the store too, though..) and saying "it's better to die than live." A massive difference.

[Prpavi]

Not everyone's a hero, true, but not everyone is a deserter ever. I believe the fact you dismiss the proportion of people in the middle who are ready to try to defend what they have, however they can, make me believe YOU have never been a witness of such a real life situation.

Nah man, "regular" people flee especially if they have families, seen it in my coutry 20 years ago so you may call me a witness of the situation. The percentage the stays and fights or joins the army is exremely small, who is left on the battlefield are men, regular joes with believes like yours, all kinds of psyhos and sociopaths and professinal soliders, needles to say regular joes get slaughtered horribly or catch a severe case of PTSD and ruin their life for good. Hero stories are few and far between and mostly folk tale to keep the morale up, don't get fooled. I would certanly flee, you too probably.

[LordBerenger]

All hail great führer Vladimir Poontang. Wannabe Stalin. Dat dere USSR 2.0

Inb4 Erdogan joins USSR 2.0 Alliance

[Tovi]

All hail great führer Vladimir Poontang. Wannabe Stalin. Dat dere USSR 2.0

Inb4 Erdogan joins USSR 2.0 Alliance

Stalin repelled nazees too.

[Thomek]

This looks familiar. Hmmmm.

No it doesn't, this is planned and executed by Russia. Look at the fresh new white sandbags mixed with tires for example..

What is hard to believe is that people STILL buy Russian propaganda after Crimea.. OR don't already understand their methods. Even the patriot Russians here understand that these are paid by Putin and not local resistance fighters. They just think it's really cool how he fights for Russia and tries to trick the world. But they don't BUY the propaganda.. This is violent theatre looking for grounds to attack Ukraine with their recently trained and ready to attack armies across the border.

Like my german friend always says.. We didn't attack Poland, they attacked us! :D

But this is not as funny.


-edit: new video showing the "protesters" attacking a gvnmt building:   

[Xant]

The obsession people have with getting everything on video is amazing to me. Like there are people recording that crap a couple meters from people shooting. So disconnected from reality.

[Prpavi]

It can never be compared to Maidan since there it was people of Ukraine protesting against Ukrainian goverment in Ukraine, not Ukrainian born Russian separatists taking arms and capturing police stations wanting to separate the whole region from Ukraine. Two completely different things but they will be brought up and compared time and time again especially by the Russian side.

[Leshma]

Inb4 Erdogan joins USSR 2.0 Alliance

Erdogan is sponsored by US. That is why we wont see Maidan in Turkey, only weak attempts of citizens to overthrow him. He's back in the saddle, for many years to come. Turkish youth must be thrilled.

[Thomek]

It can never be compared to Maidan since there it was people of Ukraine protesting against Ukrainian goverment in Ukraine, not Ukrainian born Russian separatists taking arms and capturing police stations wanting to separate the whole region from Ukraine. Two completely different things but they will be brought up and compared time and time again especially by the Russian side.

These are not Ukrainian borne Russian separatists. These are professional Russian soldiers.

Basically, it's a full on invasion, and it has just begun.

[Prpavi]

These are not Ukrainian borne Russian separatists. These are professional Russian soldiers.

Yeah but Russia will never admit that so they are still only "separatists" and "protesters" so I refferd to them as such, while it's quite clear whats going on in the video you posted

[Thomek]

I think it's fair to call them what they are.