Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 631578 times)

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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2430 on: April 04, 2014, 02:49:00 pm »
+2
If by low income disparity you mean the Party members and some chosen toadies living like kings in comparison to commoners (lets not even talk about people that had any relation whatsoever to anyone, that may have been considered a "recidivist"), then yeah, sure.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2431 on: April 04, 2014, 03:28:34 pm »
+1
You missed the corruption part  :mrgreen:

Legally even the top salary in ussr had not much better wages than the standard worker. Then of course, irregularities ensued and the state being corrupt didnt help.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2432 on: April 04, 2014, 03:33:24 pm »
+2
In SU, wage was far less important than access to goods, what with shortages in everything. Pretty much everyone had money, that they could do nothing with. Wage hardly counted as a measure of standard of living under SU.

Offline Thomek

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2433 on: April 04, 2014, 04:10:31 pm »
+4
Scandinavia is far from socialist. The easiest way to describe it is as a kind of "pragmatism". They do what make sense macro-economically.

They are only socialist in the most basic ethical sense:   Create most good for most. That's the purpose of society and the state.

HOW they do it, is of less importance. Ideologies of both capitalism and socialism are subject to whatever works to reach that goal. Sometimes socialistic ideas does the trick, other times, capitalistic ideas. The goal remains the same.

If giving people health care can make them go to the doctor sooner, get them back to work sooner (to pay taxes and sustain themselves), then it makes sense. If criminals can be turned away from crime, that's cheaper than putting them into jail again and again. So the focus of the crime politics is not revenge, but to "fix" them.   (and it works better than in any other place on earth. The terrorist is another discussion.)

Since the politics and society are really stable, we don't see the extremely hard fronts like other countries. This makes it easier for politicians to turn around and do the most sensible thing.  Now, it's not perfect, by any means, but it is certainly better for most people than almost anywhere else.
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That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2434 on: April 04, 2014, 04:50:35 pm »
+1
Very high public funding in some sectors (like education, security or healthcare) makes more sense economically than relying on private investment. In some sense, doing that is not an ideologic statement.

Just like liberalising the water market is a capitalist ideologic statement because it's really stupid from an economics point of view.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2435 on: April 04, 2014, 05:04:58 pm »
0
Some news:

Applications to president elections are closed. 23 candidates registered, a lot of expected candidates refused to take part in elections: Vitaly Klitschko (~>10% of votes, refused to take part to consolidate votes for Petro Poroshenko), Arseniy Yatsenyuk (~5% of votes, refused to take part to solve economical crisis). Most expected scenario (just my personal thoughts) is Poroshenko gets ~25-30% of votes in the first round while Tymoshenko gets ~15-20% of votes. Poroshenko then wins the 2nd round with ~65% of votes.

Doesn't really matter who'll become the president (unless those right wing dudes win which is highly unlikely). You'll soon change the constitution which will give more power to prime minister, like in every EU state. And prime minister will be Yatsenyuk. He's EU puppet just like Yuschenko was Russian, but that's what you wanted.

Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2436 on: April 04, 2014, 06:27:44 pm »
0
In SU, wage was far less important than access to goods, what with shortages in everything. Pretty much everyone had money, that they could do nothing with. Wage hardly counted as a measure of standard of living under SU.

This. In countries occupied by soviets with puppet regimes, an urban legend is often noted where if people see gathering in a line, they MUST join the line and wait because it doesn't matter what is going to be sold there, they'll need it because of market shortages.

This is true, the urban legend says that two people were standing next to a kiosk or whatever talking, and people thought something will be sold there, in a few minutes the line had a LOT of people, they waited for nothing because the kiosk was closed.

Also there was an insane spending spree when the Austrian borders were opened with limitations like a spending limit, etc. Austria gained tons of profit from that in just a few days time.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2437 on: April 05, 2014, 12:00:36 am »
0
Russia raises gas prices for Ukraine by 80 percent

Still far cheaper than the price we pay...

Offline Christo

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Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2439 on: April 05, 2014, 10:46:59 am »
+1
Quote
Russia raises gas prices for Ukraine by 80 percent

Still far cheaper than the price we pay...

Really? And what price do you pay?

Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2440 on: April 05, 2014, 10:50:51 am »
0
Russia raises gas prices for Ukraine by 80 percent

Still far cheaper than the price we pay...
Afaik, this 80% raise means that the price is now the normal 100%, without any discount.
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2441 on: April 05, 2014, 02:24:07 pm »
0
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-servicemen-leave-crimea-8-000-join-russia-1.2597940

Traitors to the glory of the Ukraine people! Or obviously fake, because no desertion ever occured from our side.

(click to show/hide)



Still no news of any Putin/Obama peaceful resolution? Economical sanctions still in place?

How bad is the entrenchment going on from Ukrainian side (both on crimean-russia border and russia mainland) and on Russian side? Any sign of possible conflicts or is anyone content to just sit on the borders?

Also how are the protests in eastern Ukraine going? It completely stopped or is it still going on, with a possibility of a similar situation occuring there (referendum to join Russia)?

Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2442 on: April 05, 2014, 02:37:38 pm »
+2
(click to show/hide)

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1zz0hh/ukraine_sticky_post/
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Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2443 on: April 05, 2014, 03:37:00 pm »
0
Thanks, its hard to keep up to date  :D


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/deposed-yanukovych-wants-russia-to-give-crimea-back-to-ukraine/2014/04/02/e37124b6-561b-45c6-9390-a0d7d346ded6_story.html


Yanukovich pulling a dick move on Russia to have a better chance at becoming Ukraine president again? (supported by Russia behind the scene maybe? :lol: evil genius)
 Even if he publically apologized and did his best at becoming the new saint of this world, I think his history will works against him too much on the short-term. Possibly next president of Ukraine after the first new one fucks up.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2444 on: April 05, 2014, 03:51:39 pm »
+2
Really? And what price do you pay?

They say that current price is 490 USD, but that's political propaganda used in election campaign. Last years price (from december) was 540 USD per 1000 cubic meters.

Take into account that we're "friendly" country, that we sold our national oil company to Gazprom for a portion of what actually is worth (15% of the price) and that Russians are building a pipe through Serbia as we speak, which they fully own.

But we also have smaller population than you guys... although Slovenians still pay less than us.

Now back to UKR. If you guys were independent state (which you aren't) you could raise the transit price through your country by 80%. But unfortunately you can't do that, because if you tried your prime minister would become history. If you pulled it off somehow, in few months you would have German tanks on your western border...