Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Moncho]

Or he went to sleep, not everyone is on these forums all the time, give it time and he may respond.

[Christo]

that triple post

[serr]

That is, the party which overthrew the government of Yanukovych. People who participated in the revolution. Revolutionaries. This is so?

Not exactly, Right Sector is certainly not "democratic force" and there is no way Poroshenko could work with them, they dislike each other too much. As for Svoboda, probably Poroshenko will propose them to unite(though I doubt it), but it is very unlikely for them to agree.

Apart from these two parties(yes, Right Sector is a party now) you are right.

Well. Another question: «Tituschki» - who is this?

Mostly thugs, bandits hired by government to do provocations and beat protesters. Less often, ideological retards like Right Sector, but from other side. For example leader of Kharkiv's titushki is radical communist 

Named after Vadim Titushko, who was hired to make provocations and attacked operator of tv channel on some rally several years ago.

Now he redeemed himself though, supported maidan and was protecting it from bad titushki

[BIA_ivani4]

Not exactly, Right Sector is certainly not "democratic force" and there is no way Poroshenko could work with them, they dislike each other too much. As for Svoboda, probably Poroshenko will propose them to unite(though I doubt it), but it is very unlikely for them to agree.

Apart from these two parties(yes, Right Sector is a party now) you are right.

Mostly thugs, bandits hired by government to do provocations and beat protesters. Less often, ideological retards like Right Sector, but from other side. For example leader of Kharkiv's titushki is radical communist 

Named after Vadim Titushko, who was hired to make provocations and attacked operator of tv channel on some rally several years ago.

Now he redeemed himself though, supported maidan and was protecting it from bad titushki

I understand you correctly? «Tituschki» these people are extremists who beat protesters? Thank you.
Why I ask these questions. The last few months, I talked a lot with people from the countries of Eastern Europe. They would often use long-forgotten words, phrases. Here's phrase: «the Entire civilized world», «ideas of Lenin», «the hand of the KGB», «democratic forces», «solidarity of the proletariat», «All progressive mankind» and so on. In Russia these phrases stamps not eaten for more than 20 years. Even when they speak about Russia or any country of the post - Soviet space is talking about «dark, poor, sullen, angry people of the USSR». You are again in the 80-ies. Your head's wrapped Communist and anti-Communist press, Newspapers 1985. Your world has turned into a black and white TV made in the mid-20th century... 

I always hoped and believed that the new generation will be more cheerful, communicative, more intelligent than we (those who had survived the 1980s and dashing 90 years, who is now 40-55 years). But alas... You learned how to program themselves! Without the press, no agitation!!! You don't want to think. The analysis is worse than a song. The feelings of the crowd, always with the winners, always with the crowd - that's your motto.

[serr]

I understand you correctly? «Tituschki» these people are extremists who beat protesters? Thank you.

Not only protesters, wide definition would be people who take part in violent actions by government's orders. Most of them did what they did for money, not for idea.

Why I ask these questions. The last few months, I talked a lot with people from the countries of Eastern Europe. They would often use long-forgotten words, phrases. Here's phrase: «the Entire civilized world», «ideas of Lenin», «the hand of the KGB», «democratic forces», «solidarity of the proletariat», «All progressive mankind» and so on. In Russia these phrases stamps not eaten for more than 20 years. Even when they speak about Russia or any country of the post - Soviet space is talking about «dark, poor, sullen, angry people of the USSR». You are again in the 80-ies. Your head's wrapped Communist and anti-Communist press, Newspapers 1985. Your world has turned into a black and white TV made in the mid-20th century... 

Hasn't yours?
I hear so much about evil faschists and sneaky NATO these days.. Are you sure you are not speaking about Russia now?

[Xant]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/30/exclusive-photographs-expose-russian-trained-killers-in-kiev.html

[BIA_ivani4]

Not only protesters, wide definition would be people who take part in violent actions by government's orders. Most of them did what they did for money, not for idea.

Hasn't yours?
I hear so much about evil faschists and sneaky NATO these days.. Are you sure you are not speaking about Russia now?

Hmm... that's how I think and how I say:
There are three different terms: nationalism, Nouzism, fascism.
Nationalism is quite healthy (even useful to society) movement.
To fascism, Ukrainian «right branch» not yet Mature enough. It is necessary to work hard and learn more of them.
But Nouzism is already there. Nouzism, in a nutshell, the terrorist (against persons of other nationality) direction of nationalism. This movement of extremists, with elements (the worst parts of) the ideology of fascism.
Now about NATO. NATO - «sneaky NATO»? No. NATO is rather expensive, decorative, baseball bat.    There is only capable of Department: U.S. army, the Bundeswehr, the French Legion.

[BlindGuy]

«the hand of the KGB»

I agree but Hand of the KGB is a legitimate idea: The KGB set up and ran many of the post USSR nations... and Putin IS the very ideal of the hand of the KGB. But then, aside from its activities in soviet times inside Russia, the KGB shared everything about the CIA: They set up sympathetic dictatorships, ran or ruined business/drugs/gunrunning/nations for personal profit, and vvere in general immoral povverbrokers on a global scale.

The hand of the KGB may be old fashioned vvay of stating it, but those players did not leave the game, most of them are still short of 70, and have the best medical attention. There vvill be another 30 to 40 years of them making descisions.

Remember that reguardless of vvhat you and I think, and the media presents, and groups such as the UN state and believe and try to achieve: the vvorld is run for profit by people vvhose name vve vvill never knovv.

[Butan]

Remember that reguardless of vvhat you and I think, and the media presents, and groups such as the UN state and believe and try to achieve: the vvorld is run for profit by people vvhose name vve vvill never knovv.

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Nationalism is quite healthy (even useful to society) movement.
To fascism, Ukrainian «right branch» not yet Mature enough. It is necessary to work hard and learn more of them.

Would you say (and I'm asking both you and serr) that Svoboda is nationalist party, and Right sector is fascist party?

[Molly]

Is there a reason that my posted link is ignored where the head of the Ukrainian Jewish community thing says that media focus on the right wing members in the government is exaggerated cuz there is no real, mentionable right wing movement in the population as a whole?

Just wondering...

[Kafein]

Is there a reason that my posted link is ignored where the head of the Ukrainian Jewish community thing says that media focus on the right wing members in the government is exaggerated cuz there is no real, mentionable right wing movement in the population as a whole?

Just wondering...

It's ignored because it serves no purpose among relatively well informed individuals.

[Butan]

Why should I believe a guy who deny the existence of right wing movement in Ukraine just because he is jewish?



Over-exaggerated or not, nationalist/fascist/cookies had a part in Maidan, and there is nationalist party members at ministers position in the government!
That could means two things, relative to what you said about people representation:


- the place given to right/far-right movement in the revolution government is proportionately higher than what the people want : in a democratic country, the power shouldnt be given to those that doesnt represent the people

- the place given to right/far-right movement in the revolution government is proportionately equal or lower than what the people want : they have high legitimacy and should stay and use their fonction to further their cause




If as you said, there is no mentionable right wing movement in Ukraine, then it should be the first situation.
Of course it serves to discredit the government to speak about possible far-right movements in new Kiev, but to totally deny their existence/influence and place of power is equally wrong.

[serr]

Would you say (and I'm asking both you and serr) that Svoboda is nationalist party, and Right sector is fascist party?

No, both are nationalists, just Right Sector is more radical. They have nothing to do with fascism.
Actually, I would say that Right Sector is closer to anarchism.

Is there a reason that my posted link is ignored where the head of the Ukrainian Jewish community thing says that media focus on the right wing members in the government is exaggerated cuz there is no real, mentionable right wing movement in the population as a whole?

Depends on what you call "mentionable right wing movement". Candidate from Svoboda will get around 5% votes, from more radical right-wing party Right Sector - around 1-2%. They are the only right wing parties in our politics. Can you call it mentionable?

For comparasion, candidate from communists will get around 6%

[Butan]

There is no left, there is no right, there is only pro-EU pro-RUS?    in this case we can say without problem that its a battle between which pro-EU movement will take the crown.

[serr]

Quite interesting that while Right Sector supported Euromaidan and was probably the most active part of it(at least when we talk about violent actions), it is not pro-EU and they don't want Ukraine to join EU.

There is no left, there is no right, there is only pro-EU pro-RUS?    in this case we can say without problem that its a battle between which pro-EU movement will take the crown.

Exactly, Udar vs Fatherland or Poroshenko vs Tymoschenko.