Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Mala]

these are news from the last week.

[DaveUKR]

26.03.2014
The Chairman of the Parliament, the interim President of Ukraine Alexander Turchinov said yesterday that along the border of Ukraine with Russia already digging an anti-tank ditch. 4 meters wide and 2 meters deep. The Governor of Donetsk billionaire Sergey Taruta, have already done such a tank ditch in their field. Worked (dug) less than one week. He said that such construction (180 km long) at a price equal to the value of 50 aircraft.
The total length of Russia's borders with Ukraine - 2250 km. This is 12 times more. So, 50*12=600 aircraft!!! 12 weeks!!! Why dig? If you can fly!! Or sell the planes… However, Ukraine asks for money. Perhaps someone wants to buy from China many of bamboo. And set along the border with Russia a lot of Wooden Stakes?

Link? Those sources that I found give no links/videos. It looks like misunderstanding. As far as I can understand, it was his reply to the question "What did you personally do for Ukrainian defence?". Anyway he sponsored it, not the government.

Also what is your opinion about kidnapping of Ukrainian officers? Those officers say that they were imprisoned and had suffered of Russian special forces persuading them to desert from the army.

[BIA_ivani4]

Also what is your opinion about kidnapping of Ukrainian officers? Those officers say that they were imprisoned and had suffered of Russian special forces persuading them to desert from the army.

http://ukranews.com/ru/news/crimea_occupation/2014/03/27/118694 ... I think these officers (commanders) did not want to leave their part. Would not give up. Remained principled and honest officers. They did not want to kill. They persuaded. They're not very smart, but such officers - respect.

Do not buy in China! Buy forest here in Russia! We also wish to become richer!

By the way, the servicemen of Ukraine, not wanting to serve in the army of Russia receive monetary compensation. If you remain in the Crimea - UAH 2000. If you are traveling to Ukraine - 4000 UAH (+compensation of expenses for moving).

[Molly]

Interesting read on the Nationalists of the "new government":

http://www.politicaljack.com/threads/putin-and-obama-and-the-ukraine.66682/

While we are critical of far right activities on the EuroMaidan, we are, nevertheless, disturbed by a dangerous tendency in too many international media reports dealing with the recent events in Ukraine. An increasing number of lay assessments of the Ukrainian protest movement, to one degree or another, misrepresents the role, salience and impact of Ukraine’s far right within the protest movement. Numerous reports allege that the pro-European movement is being infiltrated, driven or taken over by radically ethnocentrist groups of the lunatic fringe. Some presentations create the misleading impression that ultra-nationalist actors and ideas are at the core or helm of the Ukrainian protests. Graphic pictures, juicy quotes, sweeping comparisons and dark historical references are in high demand. They are combined with a disproportionate consideration of one particularly visible, yet politically minor segment within the
confusing mosaic that is formed by the hundreds of thousands of protesters with their different motivations, backgrounds and aims.

By fundamentally discrediting one of the most impressive mass actions of civil disobedience in the history of Europe, such reports help to provide a pretext for Moscow’s political involvement, or, perhaps, even for a Russian military intervention into Ukraine, like in Georgia in 2008. (In a revealing blog, Anton Shekhovtsov has recently detailed the activities of some obviously pro-Kremlin institutions, connections and authors. See “Pro-Russian network behind the anti-Ukrainian defamation campaign” at http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.com/2014/02/pro-russian-network-behind-anti.html. Probably, there are more of them.)

Found this cuz it was mentioned in our local newspaper this morning and has been signed - together with others - by Iosif Sissels, researcher of hate speech and antisemitism, Association of Jewish Organizations and Communities (VAAD) at Kyiv, Ukraine.

As always, take it with a grain of salt.

[Kuujis]

<...>
oh pls you    good thing you werent in the thread when maidan was at its start.

Questions were not about Maidan, which indeed got ugly. Rather - can you see the same ugliness happening in ... Paris? London? Riot control forced stripping and killing protesters? Using live ammo?

The idea is that protests and civil disobedience IS part of democracy and I cannot understand why OP thinks its not.

[Butan]

Questions were not about Maidan, which indeed got ugly. Rather - can you see the same ugliness happening in ... Paris? London? Riot control forced stripping and killing protesters? Using live ammo?

A protest isnt a riot, and a riot isnt a revolt. Where we draw the line is totally up to interpretation : trust the demo to deem themselves peaceful protesters whatever happens, while the government will treat them as dangerous rebels day 1.
But a siege with violence and destruction where the people numbers by the tens of thousands and took control of parts/totality of one or more cities, is a revolt to me.
You can bet your ass that whether you're in Paris or in London or wherever, the government will defend itself tooth and nail.
Live ammo taboo works only until a point, thinking western countries are never going to use force in the same context is naive at best, at worst propagandist.

[[ptx]]

In Latvia, a protest of some 20k+ people is enough to make a PM resign, regardless of the cause or argumentation. I imagine, that it is similar (scaled according to size of country) in most countries regarded as being actually democratic. Government officials are not supposed to hold on to their posts with gun and baton.

[Piok]

A protest isnt a riot, and a riot isnt a revolt. Where we draw the line is totally up to interpretation : trust the demo to deem themselves peaceful protesters whatever happens, while the government will treat them as dangerous rebels day 1.
But a siege with violence and destruction where the people numbers by the tens of thousands and took control of parts/totality of one or more cities, is a revolt to me.
You can bet your ass that whether you're in Paris or in London or wherever, the government will defend itself tooth and nail.
Live ammo taboo works only until a point, thinking western countries are never going to use force in the same context is naive at best, at worst propagandist.

Just send some mysterious snipers to shoot at protesters and police to London or Paris and you will see some live ammo in action

[LordBerenger]

DaveUKR if Russia takes over whole of Ukraine will u change ur name to DaveRUS?

Also inb4 Russia takes over Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania , Poland and Belarus.

[BIA_ivani4]

DaveUKR if Russia takes over whole of Ukraine will u change ur name to DaveRUS?

Also inb4 Russia takes over Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania , Poland and Belarus.

DaveSU !!!
And Odessa was and will again become the most cheerful and positive town of our country!
 

[Butan]

In Latvia, a protest of some 20k+ people is enough to make a PM resign, regardless of the cause or argumentation. I imagine, that it is similar (scaled according to size of country) in most countries regarded as being actually democratic. Government officials are not supposed to hold on to their posts with gun and baton.

Except if 20k is the majority of unhabitants of Latvia, I dont see how its a good argument for "democratic" process. Its a just a fight between the population and political authority. If for X reasons the population wins, its not because of justice or democracy only. Not all revolts succeed, however just their motives are. The Paris Commune of 1871 is a good example (minus the period difference and everything that comes with it).

There is a reason no constitution have an article which says : whenever 1% of the population goes in the streets, disband government. Noone can decide, outside of the law, who should govern a country. If you want to change something outside of the law, you become an outlaw.

Laws are different countries to countries, but this truth doesnt change.

[BIA_ivani4]

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania to unite in one state with Russia, will not. Sprats - this is very bad food. And people in these countries is also harmful. However, in Finland, kind and strong person... And Alaska people are lovely.
 

[[ptx]]

Except if 20k is the majority of unhabitants of Latvia, I dont see how its a good argument for "democratic" process. Its a just a fight between the population and political authority. If for X reasons the population wins, its not because of justice or democracy only. Not all revolts succeed, however just their motives are. The Paris Commune of 1871 is a good example (minus the period difference and everything that comes with it).

There is a reason no constitution have an article which says : whenever 1% of the population goes in the streets, disband government. Noone can decide, outside of the law, who should govern a country. If you want to change something outside of the law, you become an outlaw.

Laws are different countries to countries, but this truth doesnt change.

You missed the point. In a democratic country, it should never have to come to rioting of such scale, the government should resign to prevent that.

I also sincerely hope you meant to use "unless" rather than that "if" there.

[Leshma]

German chancellor against imposition of economic sanctions on Russia

Most Germans against sanctions on Russia — pollster

But funniest thing I've read in last couple of weeks is how IMF is going to send Ukraine 18 billion $$ of "aid".

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/world/europe/ukraine-bailout.html?_r=0

Poor Ukrainians, they obviously don't understand what is IMF. Certainly not a Red Cross...

[Piok]

Soon Ukraine will be in debt trap like many counties in EU