Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 625034 times)

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Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2055 on: March 21, 2014, 10:47:24 am »
0
And if you don't like the law you just violate it?
yep just that in Russia we do  :P deal with it ^^
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 10:54:14 am by Vovka »
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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2056 on: March 21, 2014, 11:53:00 am »
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Offline Moncho

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2057 on: March 21, 2014, 11:55:43 am »
+3
I am sooo glad that I google translated those two last posts :D
Bring it on!

Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2058 on: March 21, 2014, 11:57:15 am »
0
yep just that in Russia we do  :P deal with it ^^
I actually would like to hear your honest opinion on this matter for once. Can you do that?
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2059 on: March 21, 2014, 12:08:53 pm »
0
I am sooo glad that I google translated those two last posts :D
Bring it on!
show me the rubles 1st!  :P
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Offline Yarl

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2060 on: March 21, 2014, 12:32:15 pm »
+1
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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2061 on: March 21, 2014, 12:36:36 pm »
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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2062 on: March 21, 2014, 12:40:03 pm »
+1
I actually would like to hear your honest opinion on this matter for once. Can you do that?
Not going to happen. Irony and humor is the last defence that the sane mind can use when stuff around is THAT fucked up  :rolleyes:

Offline Yarl

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2063 on: March 21, 2014, 12:50:43 pm »
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2064 on: March 21, 2014, 12:54:12 pm »
+9
The nationalism in Ukraine is crap, but fucking understandable given that the area have been dominated (and starved) by other powers, Russians, Poles and Lithuanians for centuries. The Fascist elements are alive and kicking because they were the last group to resist Russian dominance.  I mean.. Rotten ideology, but understandable in the case of Ukraine.

Now as of the motives of Putin. They are primarily at home. To boost the humiliated spirits and ego of the Russian people, and probably to secure his own re-election.
(It's not like Russia need more land, and that Russians in Ukraine were threatened in any way is pure BS. People in Eastern Europe rarely have a problem with Russians, they have a problem with Russia.)

I do understand some Russians in here feel a bit of bold pride over seeing their president outmaneuver the rest of the world, but I'm deeply worried this move will not pay off for Russia. It will isolate your country even more, force countries away from using the gas both sides depend on. With crashing gas prices, Russia would have to produce other export products to compete in the rest of the world. Funnily, the only Russian export besides (gas/oil) aging weapon technology I can think of is Matroshka dolls.

I'm pretty sure Putin will even grab more of Ukraine, and then I'm deeply worried he will actually have signed a kind of death penalty for Russia. If not death, then a long long prison sentence. You will experience more poverty, and in the long run a weaker state. When the time comes the west will be ready to consume the vast resources you sit on. And like Russia waited for Ukraine to be weak, and perhaps even engineered the weakness, the rest of the world will wait until Russia is weak.

I think Russia is facing more poverty, more propaganda, more extrememism, and a more totalitarian state in the future. Sorry.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 12:58:49 pm by Thomek »
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That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2065 on: March 21, 2014, 12:56:00 pm »
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Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2066 on: March 21, 2014, 01:01:34 pm »
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amen
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Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2067 on: March 21, 2014, 02:28:14 pm »
0
Expand your thoughts about history and international law because otherwise it's just a bunch of words. The whole thing of discussion/debates here is to prove your point of view (or prove that someone is wrong).


Sorry, I though you knew your own goddamn national history and didnt think you would need I "expand my thoughts" (everytime someone does you then insult him if he doesnt agree with you) on how Ukraine declared independance from USSR (edit: while it was politically unstable) by parliamentary declaration + referendum where the result was scandalously high for YES :rolleyes: not sure USSR declared "thats very legal, I thank you for taking a chunk of our land from us!". See any similarities yet?

Then, after Russian civil war of 1917, how Crimea declared itself an independant republic, then an autonomous republic inside USSR then unilaterally transfered to Ukraine Soviet State without any people consultation, how legitimate was the fact that Ukraine kept control of the Crimean peninsulate after the USSR broke, a gift from the devil itself!? The constitution of 1992 voted by the new legal Ukraine independant state for the Crimean region express by itself the fact that even Ukraine knew they hadnt the cultural/history ties to the political control of this region, because it had been a russian populated/controlled land for 3 centuries.

On independancy legalism; I suggest you to just read rights to self determination of modern international laws ruled and controlled by the United Nations, and how it was used to legitimize such or such states, and some others not in history (refer to older posts on this same thread, on former Yugoslavia and all the successing states like Serbia/Monteblack in spanish/Kosovo, and other states like Czechoslovakia/Slovakia/Czech Republic, or even Namibia and south Sudan).


tl;dr: stop being selectively naive then cynical and read history about your own country and countries around you before trying to make others look bad.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 02:39:18 pm by Butan »

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2068 on: March 21, 2014, 03:30:05 pm »
+2

Sorry, I though you knew your own goddamn national history and didnt think you would need I "expand my thoughts" (everytime someone does you then insult him if he doesnt agree with you) on how Ukraine declared independance from USSR (edit: while it was politically unstable) by parliamentary declaration + referendum where the result was scandalously high for YES :rolleyes: not sure USSR declared "thats very legal, I thank you for taking a chunk of our land from us!". See any similarities yet?

Then, after Russian civil war of 1917, how Crimea declared itself an independant republic, then an autonomous republic inside USSR then unilaterally transfered to Ukraine Soviet State without any people consultation, how legitimate was the fact that Ukraine kept control of the Crimean peninsulate after the USSR broke, a gift from the devil itself!? The constitution of 1992 voted by the new legal Ukraine independant state for the Crimean region express by itself the fact that even Ukraine knew they hadnt the cultural/history ties to the political control of this region, because it had been a russian populated/controlled land for 3 centuries.

On independancy legalism; I suggest you to just read rights to self determination of modern international laws ruled and controlled by the United Nations, and how it was used to legitimize such or such states, and some others not in history (refer to older posts on this same thread, on former Yugoslavia and all the successing states like Serbia/Monteblack in spanish/Kosovo, and other states like Czechoslovakia/Slovakia/Czech Republic, or even Namibia and south Sudan).


tl;dr: stop being selectively naive then cynical and read history about your own country and countries around you before trying to make others look bad.

I'm not naive. And the reason why I asked to expand your thoughts because I was sceptical about this and now I see your point of view and why it is wrong. As I've said already I don't take your opinion as reasonable because it looks like you've read 1 article, got it wrong and interpreted it even worse.

1. About USSR. It's a completely different story. USSR got disbanded and Ukraine announced it's sovereignty after Russia. I kind of agree that transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine wasn't really democratic, though it happened 60 years ago and Ukraine inherited Crimea as its own territory from Soviet Union. First of all, I don't think it's appropriate to mix the declaration of independence and annexation. There are a lot of republics with the same status in Russia so if we speak about that, then we should speak about every republic of Russian Federation. Also if you want to start this "Ukraine left USSR illegally" you should get ready to discussions how legally USSR appeared.

2. About population of Crimea. Crimean native population are Crimean Tatars. Crimea being populated/controlled by Russians during 3 centuries is just something that you took out of the ocean. Russians terrorized native population of Crimea during the whole time Russians were there. At some point (like 10 years before giving Crimea to Ukraine) USSR deported ALL Crimean Tatars to central Asia and Siberia. Russians were the majority in Crimea only after USSR appeared. Also as far as I counted, Crimea was Russian for approximately 170 years (in fact less, because these years include all the revolutions, wars and occupations).

And once again, instead of explaining you suggest something to read. You mix definitions that are different, that's why you give wrong and inappropriate examples. You'd rather used Chechnya i.e.

Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #2069 on: March 21, 2014, 05:05:49 pm »
+1