Meanwhile in Ukraine

[serr]

should it be achived if its not resonable enough?
what kind of compromise are you talking about? some protesters said things like "we will stay here till the end!"... till the end of what?
since Yanukovich accepted that russian offer there was no way in compromise because maydan wanted to take all the power like it actually did.
lets remember 18 february. pro-western side blocked the work of the government and protestors wanted to capture it aswell... the thing is there was kinda more police than there should be.
at 18 february parlament was going to vote for some points with which both sides can agree... but we know what happened.

It is arguable if signing Eu association was reasonable. However at that point they could just ignore it + reasonably explain why it shouldn't be signed.
After November 30th protesters main demand was to punish those who was responsible for dispersing maidan in that night.
Later they demanded return to constitution of 2004 and early president elections, which also could and should have been accepted.
On 18th February clashes started when parliament refused to consider returning to constitution of 2004 year
However I believe it was too late at that point for peaceful solution.

[Dark_Blade]

I am agree with it but you just said that what I wanted to see.
yes, it was too late for peaceful solution so lets not call this protest as peaceful. everything what is breaking laws is a crime... soo...
and the point "it was too late" says 2 things more:
1) so maydan wasnt interested in the compromise that much... but they are citizen but not government. who they are? if they are not following the laws, rights and duties of the ukrainian citizen - they are not citizen of ukraine then.
2) it doesnt makes their actions less criminal.

[serr]

Wow, that's really interesting where it goes...
1) Maidan was interested in compromise. However on 18th February it was too late for it.
2) Noone is deniyng that their actions were illegal

But...
What would you say about government that is breaking laws? Or president? Or police? Do they really have more right to do that than protesters? And what people should do when those who have to protect their rights are the first to violate them?

[Butan]

Everytime I post I'm being told I'm stupid as fuck and my point of view is worth nothing, I should really start thinking its true! 

I don't see how you find this correlation with Crimea. I can hardly find anything that is not against the law in that story:
1. Self proclaimed leaders - against the law.
2. Separatism - against the law.
3. Local referendum - against the law, impossible due to Constitution.
4. Referendum to join other country/leave Ukraine - against the law, against Constitution.

You should really start reading some history of how your own country was even formed and found itself including Crimea + international laws on independancy.

5. Bypassing Ukrainian borders with military forces - against both Ukrainian and international laws, against Constitution.
6. Unauthorized movements of Russian soldiers outside their base in Sevastopol - against the military contract with Russia.

I dont think the WW2 was sanctionned by some laws either, Russia isnt the first country to use the Big Stick ideology.
Even then, there is so many intricacy in the papers signed by all the countries concerned by this situation that they can always refer to some shadowy chapters which will excuse what they are doing (anyone read Yuschenko and Putin speechs recently?), and this is the same on both side : the side which accuses of crime, the side who feign to have committed no crime.

[Dark_Blade]

we got that what we was voting for and thats it. they actually wasnt doing worse than in Yuschenko times.

but this situation is quite tipical for our country for all the years of independence so I am not sure why all this conversations are started now.

[DaveUKR]

Everytime I post I'm being told I'm stupid as fuck and my point of view is worth nothing, I should really start thinking its true! 


You should really start reading some history of how your own country was even formed and found itself including Crimea + international laws on independancy.

I think that explanation why these things happen to you in this thread is just right in the very same post of yours. I gave you reasonable text and you reply "you should start reading some history of your own country". Expand your thoughts about history and international law because otherwise it's just a bunch of words. The whole thing of discussion/debates here is to prove your point of view (or prove that someone is wrong).

we got that what we was voting for and thats it. they actually wasnt doing worse than in Yuschenko times.

Funny to admit it, but Yuschenko was actually better than Yanukovich and Kuchma was better than Yuschenko 

[serr]

Funny to admit it, but Yuschenko was actually better than Yanukovich and Kuchma was better than Yuschenko 

Yeah, it is really funny how each time we call our president bad and then manage to elect even worse one on next elections.

[Dark_Blade]

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1) добре там, де нас нема (к времени это тоже относится, в каком то смысле)
2) раньше была трава зеленее, небо голубее и доллар дешевле xD

[Kafein]

I think that explanation why these things happen to you in this thread is just right in the very same post of yours. I gave you reasonable text and you reply "you should start reading some history of your own country". Expand your thoughts about history and international law because otherwise it's just a bunch of words. The whole thing of discussion/debates here is to prove your point of view (or prove that someone is wrong).

I think that one of the points Butan tries to make here (among others) is that Ukraine's law against local referendums runs counter to the right to self-determination. This is also why I think the idea of a referendum was sort of okay (but of course not in how it was executed).

[Vovka]

lol nice photocut ^^

WHORE:

yeah, one more low-educated whore who can't even speak proper Russian. Nothing new, a lot of such shit in Russian judgement system.
She loves social networks.
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full foto
Girl:
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She loves social networks.

http://coub.com/view/zjix

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а потом удивляешься почему я тебя не воспринимаю в серьез, и считаю форумным пи*доболом ^^ со времен еще первого стратегуса

[Molly]

Let's put the Russian principle for Crimea onto some other country. Let's use Germany...

Germany is a federation of 16 states.
Let's imagine Saxony thinks that it would be better off with Poland and starts crying for help.
Let's imagine Poland sends troops into Saxony, crossing the borders of Germany with military forces.
Let's imagine Saxony then starts a referendum about becoming a part of Poland.
Let's imagine 123% () of the regional capital population votes for becoming a part of Poland - among others ofc.
Let's imagine Poland excepts the referendum vote and Saxony becomes Polish.

Do you people really believe that this is okay? That a single region should be allowed to just switch their country? Including every single factory, military base and government building?

You can do this step-by-step thing for basically every country. I guess most people reading the above would say "What? Some part of Germany becoming Polish nowadays? That's silly!"
Why does it seem to be okay for a lot of people when Russia just did this with Crimea? "CUZ HIZTORY YOLO" isn't good enough in my eyes.
DarkBlade wrote

everything what is breaking laws is a crime...

So, why isn't it a crime what Russia did? It's against the law as pointed out by a shitload of smart Professors and experts...

[Kuujis]

Found a relevant GIF, can't refrain from posting:
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[Kafein]

There is no such thing as "crime" or "justice" for countries.

As for Saxony, everybody knows a legit referendum there would never end up with "let's join UIF", except in Strategus.

[Vovka]

Do you people really believe that this is okay? That a single region should be allowed to just switch their country? Including every single factory, military base and government building?

why not? If u dont like flat/town u just switch it 

BTW soon u will seen what would happen to Crimea if will not be there Self-Defense Forces, on the example of Venice 

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Holy Inquisition will burn with fire this heresy 

[Kuujis]

why not? If u dont like flat/town u just switch it 

And if you don't like the law you just violate it?

And yes exactly - if you don't like the country you live in - YOU MOVE to the country you like. Exceptions apply, e.g. if you are not being liked by the country and they do genocide on you (a relevant Kosovo example). In crimea - it was anything but reasonable and the reason was "because putler wills it". With 123% vote applied on top of this, to commemorate best of russian traditions